infrared landscapeacabI was on Cohost! by mykocalico

objectively too many tv/anime/manga screencaps


photography, especially infrared



new music listening notes


  • no nazis, no terfs, no yimbies

last.fm recently played


Alt: The Cohost Daily Tag
cohost.org/TagOfTheDay
Landing Page
kukkurovaca.com/
Obsidian Vault / Psuedoblog
plaintextadventure.com/
Combined RSS Feed
kukkurovaca.com/rss.xml

sitcom
@sitcom

i don't think there's a timeline close to our own where it actually gets made & i don't think these decisions were actually made in direct reaction to the thing i'm about to name, but i'm SO curious abt the completely theoretical version of the obi-wan show if fan reaction to "luke skywalker is actually much more complicated than we thought & has made mistakes" wasn't so. uh. bad,?

first note: despite riding hard for TLJ, i'm not 100% bought in on the luke aspects of it. i always found his character changes to feel understandable, but not inevitable. that's a perfectly fine route to take, especially in a series with so many moving parts you want to line up, but i never personally felt it was necessarily the most interesting thing they could have done with him. but i also think that's fine, bc it's one choice out of hundreds. that said, as rian johnson puts out more stuff & his favourite themes become more & more evident, i tend to increasingly see grumpy isolated luke as a mildly bland & ultimately forgivable johnsoncore "the best choice is ALWAYS the choice that Subverts Expectations™"

obviously, a lot of people who also aren't bought in on it took it a lot more personally than i did, or at least landed further away from agreeing it made any sense, & were. like very vocally angry abt that. & i don't think disney star wars employees at any point literally said "we CAN'T let obi-wan come out of this show any darker, more difficult & complex, or At Fault than we already know him to be; look at what happened when we tried that with luke!!" buuuuut...........

it's so, so, so sad & such a missed opportunity that we don't get to have obi-wan really & truly having to sit with having made mistakes. we get anakin telling him "you didn't do this to me; i did this to myself" & that's the end of the conversation. there's no obi-wan even getting to agree that ultimately anakin made all his own shitty choices but obi-wan still failed him & harmed him, or obi-wan trying to push back & in the process of getting nowhere realising that his beloved anakin is truly gone.

of course, a huge part of this is that obi-wan is like The Paragon Jedi & the series can't let him admit fault without admitting the fault of the jedi, which the franchise largely doesn't want to do. ESPECIALLY in a full-throated nostalgiabait series like this one. even if obi-wan retreats into denial, if he admits even for a second that the jedi systematically failed this child so horrifically that it allowed him to grow into the man he is, the cracks have been pointed out & we would know that obi-wan is choosing to just ignore them. which is compelling! but not what they're interested in. there's so much potential in their relationship, even as they awkwardly set it up in this show!! they just can't pay it off, for so many reasons, & it makes me crazy!!!

what does it mean to forgive yourself for harming someone when the person you harmed won't even recognise there was harm? if someone doesn't accept your apology, not because you haven't earned it or they just don't forgive you or any genuine reason, but bc they're too self-centered & clouded by self-hatred to admit you have anything to apologise for? how do you grapple with taking responsibility for something when you're literally not being allowed to claim that you're responsible? do you maybe not do it well & end up changing your name & going to live in a fuckin desert for a couple decades, too scared to make human connection in case you cause that grievous harm again? or is it something else? do you grapple with it, truly stare it in the face & confront it & yourself, & find true full & honest peace? even without the grace of an apology being accepted? we can't ask any of these questions if obi-wan can't be allowed to carry the fact that he & the jedi did harm.

anakin wanted to save the people he loved & when he couldn't, he let it make him into a monster. when obi-wan finds that same """weakness""" in himself, that he really & truly wants to save this person he loves so much, & he can't do it, what does he become? what does it mean to him??? what does it mean that they both took new names & "killed" the versions of themselves that were in the jedi temple? what is it for obi-wan to accept anakin's death again? what about what he figures out here changes things for him? what have we learned here that couldn't be inferred from the way he talks abt anakin & darth vader later?

if star wars wouldn't keep returning to these same characters, it wouldn't have to deal with not being able to do anything new or potentially risky with them bc that weird multi billion dollar franchise fear that guides all their decisions, but it does, so, you know, it does, & thirty-something lesbians in their star wars pajama pants on their couch go absolutely insane abt it, & then, well, that's, so you know, star wars. star wars would literally............. like star wars would literally be so good if it were good


IkomaTanomori
@IkomaTanomori

Not canons added to. Most of all, not IPs built on. But when only an elite few have permission to touch the holy writ of canon and massive resources are lavished on their projects while others are suppressed, all sentiment becomes bound up in that canon. Then the owners whose power and profit is bound to that sentiment are incentivized to make nobody upset, and so all sentiment becomes nostalgia and all nostalgia becomes tinged with valium and opium.

Shakespeare didn't invent his most remembered characters from whole cloth. He wrote the version of popular ideas at his time which survived - not to take away from the wit of them at all. Homer is remembered as the composer of the well known stories of Odysseus and Troy, but it's certain they weren't the first or only versions of that story. The story of Amaterasu restoring the land from darkness wasn't invented for Ookami, it was a legend with hundreds or thousands of retellings already. I could list examples forever.

Star Wars is, at the moment, one thing. It used to be a different one thing, because there used to be a different canon, before the way was cleared to make a new movie trilogy and many fans felt slighted by the denouncing of their favorite parts of what came before. Arbitrary and enforced private ownership of the canon obviously does not lead to the best possible version, protected from polluting influences. It is when messy and contradictory influences and ideas can run rampant and make a million and one versions of the story that it evolves true meaning.

IMO, the fanfic on AO3, the lewd fan art on rule34, the RPG sessions in a dozen different systems of thousands of fans, the stories in the heads of thousands of players of SWTOR and Galaxies (old version and new), the events sketched in thousands of instances of the old Decipher CCG, every playthrough of X-Wing, Dark Forces, and all the other video games - these stories are all at least as important as a Netflix show or main movie. Many of them make no sense; a few of them are the best thing ever conceived in the fictional universe. Not just one best either, but a million best versions to suit the needs of different people at different times.

I'm so tired of the way ownership distorts and flattens meaning.


kukkurovaca
@kukkurovaca

It's cool, I don't need to worry about understanding archetypes or tropes, I just need to pay attention to a relatively small set of works that a corporation, or a professor, or my that one friend I listen to, tells me are real.

I'm not different, really; I avoid consuming fan works because I simply do not have the attention span (also my brain stopped being able to read long form prose a while ago).

But one of the things that I've enjoyed a lot about villainess shit is how much playful remixing there is of different themes and story elements. It's just fun. But it's overwhelming because there's just a firehose of content.

(I've joked before that we need an Aarne-Thompson of villainess stuff -- of course, I'm sure a lot of that role is already fulfilled by tvtropes)


You must log in to comment.

in reply to @sitcom's post:

YES THIS

The aspect of, "OK, so what does this actually MEAN for these guys to act like that? What's changed, and how does that impact their choices going forward???"

And then as you state so well, they just NOPE out of exploring that.

Thanks for the commiserating opportunity.

thank you for commiserating!! this show ended up making me so bonkers for how often it would start to approach something so cool, then just..... walk away & it's like WAIT WHAT ABT THE COOL THING??

yeah, pretty much. I don't actually think it would have prevented much of the toxic reaction, but of all the possible times for disney to not set up endless spinoffs and sequels, and to actually cut off the possibility of doing it in a way the franchise had done before, it's kind of absurd. even if the force awakens hadn't been "controversial" it would have made sense to leave room to explore the fall of the new republic.

in reply to @IkomaTanomori's post:

Rian Johnson should've gotten to do what he wanted to do with Last Jedi as an Obi-Wan movie instead. The heroic deconstruction would've fit perfectly as a follow-up to his story in the core canon, and Ewan McGregor could've sold the fuck out of it.
But, everything about the sequels was poorly-conceived, committee-designed garbage. Alas.

Anything that left the machine of capital and the craven fear of those liches whose unnatural lives are sustained by it out of the room would've been better. I don't subscribe to the auteur theory of cinema, but a committee loaded with executive consultants is doomed to produce garbage on the GIGO principle. If the only people pushing on Johnson's vision had been fellow creators just as dedicated to making the best movie they could, in a spirit of cooperation, it would've come across as "team" instead of "committee." Funny how that word has been tainted by association with and use in service of oppression.

The choice to double down on starfighters as world war 2 planes would've been wrong in any timeline in my opinion though.

I'm not willing to accept bombs falling an arbitrary down out of thickened B-wings that somehow didn't lose atmosphere inside with bomb bays open. It looks stupid, not cool. You're allowed to have the contrary opinion of course, this is just my preference.

I wasn't going to bring it up since I didn't want to sound like I was dumping on it too much, but I agree. I think that could've been solved with A) changing how the chase was happening (interdictor cruisers... come on, they're as easy to explain as "they got interdictors close to us! We can't go to hyperspace!"), and B) re-cutting the movie so that the run out and back happens after the resistance is grounded on the crystal fox planet. Make the time pressure about how long they can hide out in the caves instead of a stern chase with no hyperdrive fuel. (presumably, the first order had plenty of fuel, begging the question why they didn't hyperspace forward and then back to have some ships pincer the resistance - another thing changing the story structure like this solves)

in reply to @kukkurovaca's post: