kylelabriola

blogging (ashamedly)

Hello! I'm an artist, writer, and game developer. I work for @7thBeatGames on "A Dance of Fire and Ice" and "Rhythm Doctor."

--

I run @IndieGamesofCohost where I share screenshots and spotlights of indie games. I also interview devs here on Cohost.


kylelabriola
@kylelabriola

I occasionally see people say things like “Why did Valve do X” or “Why doesn’t Steam work like Y?” And while I think more and more of us are aware of the answers to those questions by this point, as Valve’s strategy with Steam becomes more clear over the years, it could still be worth saying out loud.

I figured I’d throw my two cents into why Steam is the way it is and why it will always work better for certain types of games than other types of games.


vectorpoem
@vectorpoem

Obviously, markets do not produce just outcomes - if the purpose of a system is what it does, markets exist to concentrate wealth and perpetuate their own existence. But generally the more the market has rewarded you personally the more motivated you are to identify with it and rationalize your path, your choices, as being smart and correct and deserving. And the market is in turn constantly sifting the creator population for those whose goals already most closely resemble what the market currently "wants" - in effect it tells anyone who doesn't have any deeper convictions what to dream, what to value and what to ignore. When people say something like "let the market decide" they are saying "the system's current tendencies, in all their arbitrarity and unfairness and path-dependence (subject to centuries of hereditary wealth, class struggle etc) should continue to reproduce as-is". From that perspective, individual opinions are random vectors of inefficiency that only benefit markets in aggregate if they "stir the pot" in ways that create ever more capital - novelty and creativity, as drives independent of that, are merely entropy.

This is obviously a very weird way to think about a creative medium, a thing humans do just because they enjoy it, like dancing or running. But it's the reasoning that has eaten everything, because capital seeks above all to reproduce and concentrate itself. And people who wind up benefitting the most from that identify with it, and call that "merit".


MOKKA
@MOKKA

is that store curation (especially in the way Valve does it) also shapes the kinds of games that are being made and released.

If Valve's algorithm selects games based on average number of players, average playtime, only allows developers to use (their limited supply of) "visiblity rounds" when they push out a major update and so on, it also makes it more likely for specific types of games to find an audience on its storefront.

I wrote about this already, but not every kind of game lends itself to these criteria, so obviously developers are then pressured into creating games that could fit, which in turn leads to a kind self-reinforcing cycle that is very hard to break out of, unless you are lucky enough to find an audience via other means.

How else would you explain this wave of roguelike-type games with layer upon layer of compulsion inducing stuff woven into them?
It's not just that "the market" decides what gets sold, it also decides what gets produced and who is allowed to keep producing things and who isn't.
No algorithm is ever going to be neutral, because at some point it needs to make a value judgement and that part is being decided by whoever has build the thing in the first place.

Anyway, most of this has already been mentioned above, but from my perspective what I would like for Valve to do, is to give users more tools to tweak what kind of stuff they get to see.
Steam already tracks so much of stuff of what's going on, so why can't I just tell it to sort my front page for games with a low average playtime, no regular updates and whatever other kind of category I might be interested in. I know that there are games like this on Steam, but finding them in the store itself is next to impossible, because at every step, it puts another five roguelike deckbuilders with city management elements in your way.


You must log in to comment.

in reply to @kylelabriola's post:

Valve has always struck me as a very odd true-believer-libertarian kind of company. Standard ethos in that regard: everyone technically has the opportunity to get preferential treatment, no bias whatsoever.

(It did make me indescribably furious the first time I found out that big devs aren't getting charged the full cut though.)

Yeah...

Yeah the cut situation is weird. I think I could defend it as an idea if the thresholds and qualifications were much more generous. Like maybe if it was just a way to punish "spammy" or "illegitimate games" and then everyone who made decently-well-liked game got the other cut...maybe it would work? But personally if I was running a store I'd just do it the opposite way, give the generous cut to the small indies.

Good post.

Personally, to me, all of Steam clicked into place once I learned Gabe Newell is a libertarian. They will never do curation because the company was founded and still operates on those principles: that the market will pretty much regulate itself.

Which in real life tends to end up meaning "the big get bigger"

I agree with most of the above but outside of the vaguely libertarian ethos at work, the main other motivating factor at valve (and where their ethos falls flattest on its face) is in enforcement.

Being able to view the struggles of adult game makers and visual novel makers on steam leads me to believe that if valve is delusional if it genuinely thinks it's a meritocracy with no one putting their finger on the scale.

Meaning because they decide to put their thumb on the scale to disadvantage adult games and visual novels intentionally?

Yeah, I agree with that. That's why I feel like there is no point in pretending that it's an unbiased system. They clearly make some decisions from the top.

Essentially yes. The general capriciousness encountered by people trying to deal with Valve when attempting to sell visual novels and adult games of a certain style puts the lie to that notion imo.

FWIW I do agree that for all the problems, they've gotten a lot right, but it's cold comfort when they sometimes seem like the only game in town and the things they get wrong leaves those people out in the cold.

Tangentially related but I've always wanted to look more into the curators on steam and found it frustrating that it's not easier to find ones that will surface games I'm into. It would be nice if there was a way to pick a list of obscure games I like and say "show me a curator who has recommended all of these"

Absolutely. I feel like the curator system had potential but the execution was so botched. Since I've been in this headspace lately, I've actually been looking into well-liked curators.

Might make a separate post about strategies for finding hidden gems on Steam.

I'll keep an eye out for that!! So far the only thing I really know is their little interactive game recommender which is okay. But I can't help but feel that there's more out there that I'm missing

I feel like Perfect Tides is the perfect type of game for human curation/testimonial. It's fresh and personal and it's the kind of thing you might not KNOW you want until you see it, or hear someone's feelings about it. I don't think I've ever seen Perfect Tides pop up in my Steam "algo" on its own.

Yeah, my only thought after reading this is maybe curators need some improvements, because I don't see what other solution there would be. I don't want a single person employed by valve to be curating, I think many people would agree on that point. There is no data-driven model for "exposing indie gems" because what is a valuable game experience is human subjective and not even sales or reviews accurately tell me if I'm going to like a game, they're only the roughest approximation.

I'd also just hazard that if the problem of the market is "exposing more viability for smaller niche products beyond the capacity for any human market that has ever existed in history," we're in the realm of nitpicking for utopian solutions. I'm not saying there isn't improvement to be made here, and you've written a more reasonable assessment of the issue than I see elsewhere, but the plain reality is the current Steam market surfaces to me more individual creative art objects that I can pay someone to interact with than has literally ever existed, and it's already by default currently better than any other model I'm aware of.

Etsy is worse, Spotify is at least slightly worse, all streaming platforms are worse, twitch and YouTube are slightly worse. Most forms of niche media require "marketing" of some form -- social media, word of mouth, etc. Steam meanwhile has curators, a discovery queue that you can click through endless games related to your interests (but few people ever seem to bother using this for some reason), massive sales that consistently surface an enormous range of games, massive demo events that surface even more. You can infinitely scroll down the front page for more and more and more game recommendations. Everyone is out there fighting on Twitter and other social platforms to get wishlists to get attention to get sales, but like, what is Steam supposed to do to step in beyond that? At a certain point, interest requires a customer who cares to put in the effort.

Last note I'd say is people really under value the discovery queue. I've scrolled through thousands of games at this point, bought and played and recommended many I never would've found otherwise. But there's no system in reality that could have put 3827 (as of now) games in front of me to consider without me putting in the effort of clicking through the list.

Yeah that makes sense. I regret maybe overselling the "Valve curator" aspect of my blog post, although I still don't think it would really be so bad (the Featured tab on the Nintendo eShop is pretty great imo.)

I do think there are data-driven solutions to finding hidden gems, personally. An algo as simple as "high review score, but review count between X and Y number of reviews" is pretty effective at pooling together good candidates.

Some people have taken their own try at things like that: https://steam250.com/hidden_gems

If there's a way to get something like that on the homepage of Steam, I haven't seen it. But I know they've dabbled with the idea. If you go to Your Store -> Interactive Recommender and set the Popularity gauge to "Niche", they're probably using a similar tactic to find hidden gems. So I think it would be an easy thing for Valve to pull off, but I don't think it would benefit their bottom line.

I'll take the way Valve does it over whatever results in the Nintendo Eshop or the PS Store, and I don't even like Steam.

Yeah it's rough, but following steam releases, I've also noticed a few games releasing with absolutely nothing and still getting noticed. This wouldn't happen on Switch or Playstation, and I really doubt these would be games highlighted by Valve employees.

Another thing is that when you do have stuff like Nintendo Direct and State of Play, then it's the only thing people look at. They're good to showcase already pretty well marketed games to people who look at nothing else, but they won't create success out of nothing by looking at releases and picking what they find interesting.

Of course it would be nice if the home had a spot for lesser known games, but then you're just moving the problem, who gets picked, what stops them from going for high potential for sells instead of quality etc. I get why they're staying away from this.

The one place I've seen Valve do this is for Steam Fest trailers, because they do pick games here, but yeah it's mostly about what looks good and varied for a trailer.

Personally I just want something halfway between the Steam storefront and the Nintendo/Playstation one hahaha.

Yeah, the console stores are horrible for discovery. On their end, they have to solve all the opposite problems and learn from what Steam does well.

If Valve had human editorial and it happened to suck, I would just write a blogpost about their picks sucking. But personally I'd prefer to be in that situation. Also all things considered, I think Nintendo/Sony/Xbox does a pretty decent job with their picks! Valve employees could easily be as good, or they could get guest contributors.

But this is all hypothetical bc it is directly in conflict with their philosophy.

Really good text, nothing to add really. Just that my general image of steam builded in all these years has fallen in this year in a relatively little time. Not that they did a big major bad decision, but it was just, so little things, one by one, that have created a mountain of disliking that I have to deal as a player and dev... A visual novel dev, without 100$. Glad Itch exists, not that it doesn't have problems, but it's good things make it really good. But yeah I really suggests start with Itch if one is a dev wanting to grow, specially if you want to do anime inspired visual novels.

Yeah, it's this false premise that the single independent variable is the quality of the game. But obviously it isn't true if you look at the varied circumstances under which the games are developed and distributed.

To me the idea of browsing Steam is like scrolling the front page of Amazon looking for ~something~ to buy. I only go there to check out a game by name, god knows what Valve's demographic actually is for their "recommendations" algo

I agree that curation is valuable, but I'm not convinced that Valve (or their storefront) are the best place to do it. This is what games journalism is for. It is better, I think, for the inherent bias of journalism to be something that readers opt into, rather than vertically integrating with the store page.

The one argument that I can see for this is that Valve can afford to do it, whereas most games journalism is either dead broke or in a tense relationship with their advertisers. Perhaps it would be ideal for Valve to offer something akin to Amazon's Affiliate Links; where if someone bought a game by following the link on your website, you'd get some small cut of the sales price? This might allow popular curators to earn a living doing game journalism based on their effectiveness, rather than just being paid to recommend something whether they like it or not. I kind of doubt that this would ever be done in an equitable way, though, given the power dynamics of the parties involved.

I don't know; I honestly have never gone to Valve's store page and decided to browse for a game. I know that some -- many! -- people must do this, but I don't have time to play the games that I've extensively researched. To me, the steam storefront is an obnoxious banner-ad that plays beneath the Search Bar. I get most of my game recommendations from either social media or streamers, who are often in a good position to spend a lot of their time researching less-popular, still-fun games.

I quite agree with you, i like human curation greatly, and so found it elsewhere than on steam
But i feel like the festivals they get (next fest, deck builders fest, farming fest etc.) and the indie editors, award events having some too (like the LudaNarraCon, the MAZE. Awards etc.) are good new way (i think it's quite recent but can't remember when it started) for them to have this curation. it's not perfect as it still suffers from the meritocracy you've talked about with better selling games being shown first, but i feel like it's making progress in a good way as i've been discovering a lot of these hidden gems.