it seems a lot of proponents of transandrophobia seem to believe (either ignorantly or maliciously) that transmisogyny is a term that refers to transphobia as it presents for transfeminine people (and thus that transandrophobia is in the same line, transphobia as it presents for transmasc people). this conception of transmisogyny is incorrect of course, transmisogyny is a unique intersectional form of oppression that excludes and discriminates against transfeminine people and transfeminine voices EVEN WITHIN spaces that purport to be separately inclusive of queer and trans people and of women. a lot of the examples of "transandrophobia" these people throw out are truly indistinguishable from generalized transphobia except that they unnecessarily focus in on the masculine experience. "people expect me to present as a woman even though i identify as a man" well you're not going to believe this but trans women face expectations that deny their gender identity too! that's not a unique form of oppression you experience, that's transphobia. yes you're allowed to speak on these issues but claiming them as issues of transandrophobia instead of transphobia excludes transfeminine people from the discussion around their experiences of these same issues and therefore is inherently a transmisogynistic act itself. i haven't come across anyone with a concern that trans-inclusive male-inclusive spaces are inaccessible for trans men on a wide societal scale, and if i'm being super generous maybe there could be actual concerns about this that i haven't seen but they certainly aren't the prevailing idea. TMA people aren't upset with you for talking about transphobia, we're upset with you for inaccurately claiming many of its facets are uniquely experienced by transmasc people, denying transfems the space to discuss the ways in which they experience these forms of oppression as well and refusing to critically and meaningfully engage with what transmisogyny actually is when we tell you what we deal with
- she/her/it/its
18+
psychotic aroace genderfluid neurodivergent transfem
rambling all of my arbitrary thoughts about the world on here i guess
in reply to @ladytimpani's post:
i don't think anyone accuses trans women of being "gender traitors" or implies they are men because of some wicked taint in their souls they share in common with cis men, with phrases such as "the men of being transgender". any negative characterization people have in their heads of trans men by default, which MANY people have, is transmisandry
"i don't think anyone... implies [trans women] are men because of some wicked taint in their souls they share in common with cis men" do you know how ridiculous you sound right now
in your reply you seem to be arguing that these arbitrary minute differences in transphobic language constitute an entirely unique form of oppression, i spent the entire post above explaining why this isn't the case. this is hyperspecificalizing on the masculine experience of transphobia again. but then the post you linked is entirely centered around accusing transfems of being part of the oppressive group here. so the overall argument you're making between both posts is that transphobic instances experienced by transmasculine people are so fundamentally different from transphobic instances experienced by transfeminine people that it's reasonable to portray transfems as oppressive and exclude them from discussions about the same transphobia that they experience because they are oppressive. this is definitionally transmisogynistic
the last points on the post you linked argue that transfems are making widespread unfair generalizations and accusations about transmasc people. i happen to know that you have a history of deliberately misinterpreting transfem's statements and arguing that they are actually talking about all trans men when they are talking about transmisogyny because i've seen you weirdly following transfem people who talk about this online around before but let's entertain this for a second. if you believe transfems are making generalizations like this in their posts then you have done nothing different in your language around transfeminine people than they do in their language around transmasculine people, so according to your beliefs it sounds like you must be doing the exact same thing that you accuse transfems of doing for transmascs. repeatedly adding "people including" in front of "transfems" doesn't make the functional meaning of what you're saying any different. don't be obtuse, if you believe that you aren't widely portraying transfems this way without holding yourself to any expectation of making the language different then why aren't you giving the same grace to transfems talking about specifically transmisogynistic transmasc people?
i'm most likely not going to engage with any further arguments you make in response to this post unless you offer something really compelling because i don't want to get dredged down in debate here and i'm familiar with your tactics but as a fellow transfem (/gen) i truly hope the best for you. i hope you live a fulfilling life with meaningful relationships and community that present as few transmisogynistic and transphobic experiences to your life as possible and i hope you learn not to disparage or misrepresent other transfems when they talk about the injustices they face. i hope you live and grow and love and flourish and be kind to those around you and i sincerely hope you have a nice day.
Oof. And of course, the other commenters are still going on about all this. I wish transandrophobia truthers would just block people, instead of sealioning about it for months at a time.