taste me, as the food and drink Alice found almost said. she was cast unto a stormshorn sunderedsea. you too will fall beneath my waves in time.


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shel
@shel

I’m serious like. What is the ideological and economic history of settler colonialism and eurocentrism. So much of the history of how the world got fucked up seems to be “they were copying the British/America” but like what is the origin of the Anglo-Saxons being so fucked up and evil. Why and how did this one island become so fucking powerful and to develop this self image as being so superior to everyone and like, to the point of developing race science.

I don’t want Your Take on it I’m completely disinterested in that right now. I want recommendations on history books about this.

Henry VIII declared himself a direct descendant of Aphrodite/Venus and therefore claimed/coined “Divine Right of Kings” and declare there to be a “British Empire” and himself the head of the Church of England (which worships Jesus and not Aphrodite for some reason). Where the fuck did that come from. What is the history of that. He used the money he saved from no longer giving money to the Catholic Church to make a stronger navy to conquer wales, Scotland, and Ireland. What are good books about this moment. I don’t give a shit about his six wives I want the empire ideology and economics and psyche as it pertains to geopolitics and nationalism.

Why is the Battle of Troy so important to European history and identity and national origin myths when Troy isn’t even in Europe. The entire geographic distinction between Europe and Asia seems very ideological and social what is the history of that.

I guess like I don’t want a history of Europe so much as I want a history of the concept of Europe. Of the European nationalism and why Europeans kept trying to conquer the entire world when nobody else had really seemed that interested in that. Why Europeans started fabricating mythologies that posit their entire continent to be superior to the whole world, when no other continent really tried to do that. How was Europe able to be strong enough to conquer the whole world when places like China and India had historically been so much stronger than Europe for so much longer than all of European history even goes back to.

Like, a lot of it comes back to Rome and to Alexandria the Great but a lot of that history isn’t even in Europe and surely the idea that fucking Vikings had anything to do with that and should be considered superior to the world would have begun that long ago. Who were the first people to write about that stuff. What is the history of white supremacist ideology before there was even the concept of white.

If you have book recommendations covering any of these questions please put them in the comments. Books please.


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in reply to @shel's post:

it picks up a little later than this, but my favorite piece of writing on the development of white supremacy as an ideology & the material conditions that led to it is the essay "slavery, race, and ideology in the United States of America", by the historian Barbara J Fields. she uses a lot of documents from early colonies to build out an argument that ideology in general & white supremacy in particular don't develop to guide people's decisions, but rather to justify them

i think there's also some good stuff in the "why did people go along with this and how did it become normal" category re: european colonialism in the later sections of David Graeber's "debt: the first 5000 years". he goes into the sort of financial structure of the operations of spanish conquistadors, and changes in ideas of property and criminality in early modern England. the book is largely working towards a different topic than what you asked about, but those two sections immediately came to mind

There's a good essay in the Guardian by Kwame Anthony Appiah about the idea of "Western civilization", and the idea of a unified "Europeans" seems to have come from the Battle of Tours in 732, where Charles Martel, the grandfather of Charlemagne, held off the Umayyad invasion of France and defeated the armies of al-Andalus, and ever since, Europe has defined itself by the concept of Christendom, and by its opposition to Islam and other "infidels", and this definition by opposition only got further cemented in the 1500s when the Ottoman Empire's growth into Europe was halted at Vienna.

I have not read this myself (most of my knowledge about this comes from literary analysis which isn't what you want) BUT I think some of the cultural context you're after might be in Roman Britain: Outpost of the Empire by H.H. Scullard. Lots of primary source accounts of life in the centuries after Julius Caesar invaded Britain, with particular regards to the imperial cult and the melting of local European religions together with Christianity. This period is basically how white Brits declared themselves the inheritors of the legacy of Rome and why British poets make constant references to shit like The Aeneid

at a guess I think a lot of this comes down to the evangelical nature of Christianity, specifically the idea that people who aren't "saved" (part of the church) are doomed to eternal suffering, and thus provides a moral framework for expanding power that can work in concert with political ambition to create a cycle of self-justifying growth

like, I think the key innovation of white supremacy and settler-colonialism is the framing of conquest not just as "this will be better for us" but as "this will be better for them" which I think has its roots in Christian theology

I think the best (and most famous) work around this part of it is Max Weber's The Protestant Work Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism. It isn't directly about colonialism, but how the historical development of Christianity after the Protestant Reformation influenced and co-developed the growth of capitalism happening at the same time, which was inevitably closely tied to colonialist projects. The book itself is a bit messy, because it was originally written as a series of essays, but if you can get past that I think it provides a compelling argument for the Western ideological development we see all the way up to the modern day. If you can find a copy, the translation by Stephen Karlberg also provides a good introduction/overview of the main ideas without having to dive straight in.

  • Erskine, Roman Imperialism (Edinburgh, 2010)
  • Geoffrey of Monmouth The History of the Kings of Britain / Historia regum Britanniae (a decent English translation's available in Penguin Classics)

The first of these lays out some of the explanations historians have given for the Roman imperial model. The second of these, which is almost entirely made up, is a headline example of the kind of mythological transference that underpinned English connections to Troy; it is perhaps useful context to remember that the Britanniae in Geoffrey's title became the Welsh, and that (some centuries later) the Tudors conceived of themselves as a family emerging from Wales. (Which was conquered well before Henry VIII's day; Scotland on the other hand was never conquered, but joined first as a separate royal possession when James VI and I took the English throne, and then in a political union in 1707.)

On the particular contours of later power either side of and during the nineteenth century, you might find readability and some sympathy in Hobsbawm's trilogy, The Age of Revolution, The Age of Capital, and The Age of Empire. There are at least worse places to start. For England in particular, you won't agree with everything in Hilton's A Mad, Bad, and Dangerous People? England 1783-1846 but it'll give you lots of facts with which to argue one way or another.

The early Portuguese conquests in Asia present a useful limit case for the topic, because while it's not difficult to explain why European powers sought and made conquests in the Americas, in Asia the Portuguese faced states with rough parity in military technology and strong numerical advantages. As a starting point, you could try Conquerors by Roger Crowley; it's a popular history book with unsympathetic moments, and I wouldn't stop there, but it treats the topic in one volume and will point to further reading.

I'm afraid I don't know off the top of my head of a good single-volume history specifically of English state-formation around Henry VIII. You might get something out of the recent Tudor Empire: The Making of Early Modern Britain and the British Atlantic World, 1485-1603 (2021) by Jessica S. Hower; I've not yet read it.

How to access these books is a separate question, beyond my competence.


Since you asked for books, and not views, I'm holding my tongue on the actual questions, and indeed their underlying assumptions.

It’s universally hated by geographers, even counter-institutional geographers (the prof for my Critical Indigenous Geographies class had a 15-minute rant about it that I can’t possibly reproduce here). So keep a skeptical eye open.

Watts, V. (2013). Indigenous place-thought & agency amongst humans and non-humans (First Woman and Sky Woman go on a European world tour!). Decolonization: Indigeneity, Education & Society, 2(1), 20–34.

This article will examine how agency is circulated through human and non-human worlds in the creation and maintenance of society from an Indigenous point of view. Through processes of colonization, the corruption of essential categories of Indigenous conceptions of the world (the feminine and land) has led to a disconnect between how this agency is manifested in Indigenous societies. Through a comparison between the epistemological-ontological divide and an Indigenous conception of Place-Thought, this article will argue that agency has erroneously become exclusive to humans, thereby removing non-human agency from what constitutes a society. This is accomplished in part by mythologizing Indigenous origin stories and separating out communication, treaty-making, and historical agreements that human beings held with the animal world, the sky world, the spirit world, etc. In order for colonialism to operationalize itself, it must attempt to make Indigenous peoples stand in disbelief of themselves and their histories. This article attempts to reaffirm this sacred connection between place, non-human and human in an effort to access the “pre-colonial mind”.

Simpson, L. B. (2014). Land as pedagogy: Nishnaabeg intelligence and rebellious transformation. Decolonization: Indigeneity, Education & Society, 3(3), 1–25.

A resurgence of Indigenous political cultures, governances and nation-building requires generations of Indigenous peoples to grow up intimately and strongly connected to our homelands, immersed in our languages and spiritualities, and embodying our traditions of agency, leadership, decision-making and diplomacy. This requires a radical break from state education systems – systems that are primarily designed to produce communities of individuals willing to uphold settler colonialism. This paper uses Nishnaabeg stories to advocate for a reclamation of land as pedagogy, both as process and context for Nishnaabeg intelligence, in order to nurture a generation of Indigenous peoples that have the skills, knowledge and values to rebuild our nation according to the word views and values of Nishnaabeg culture.

This is sort of the inverse of what I’m looking for. I want to know the historical origin point of Europe getting onto the path of colonialism. This is the history of indigenous thought that was eradicated

I was thinking that in order to understand why European thought is bad, it might help to have a clear explanation of how European thought is bad, and the Watts has a very clear thesis about that question.

A book I found quite insightful on this, even though it's a pop history and wasn't really intending to be, was David Mitchell's Unruly. Basically, the legitimacy of England's monarchs have been quite shaky through out most of its history, which means they constantly have to justify their claims. Which leads to both propagandizing about why they should be in charge and demonstrating the brute fact of their in-chargeness by constantly taking charge of more things. This creates a vicious cycle that results in stuff like pressing tenuous claims to the French throne, which requires more propaganda, conquest etc.

Eventually you get to Henry VIII, whose dad was basically just some guy who opportunistically grabbed the throne, telling the pope, who he had been more than fine with up to that point, to go take a hike after the pope tells him, "No". Because who's in charge, Henry or the pope? And he does this by asserting that Britain is an empire because a pope outranks a king, sure, but not an emperor.

One that I think is partially relevant is Debt: The First 5000 Years by David Graeber. It doesn't talk about how European ideology came to grow like that (or at best in passing) but it does talk a decent amount about how several events & systems in Europe's colonialism involved people being forced by the mechanisms of debt. It also highlights Christianity's increasing permissiveness towards usury. If Graeber's thesis holds up I think those are some important pieces to the puzzle you're asking about.
(Especially if it means that the supremacist and financial parts of the ideology have been feeding off each other since well before capitalism properly emerged, but I'm not knowledgeable enough to make conclusions about that.)

It's maybe a bit of a hard sell for this particular topic given that's spread over the latter half of a 400 page book, but the book's scope isn't limited to Europe or the timeframe of colonialism.