maff

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SnepShark
@SnepShark

Edit: As pointed out in a post by @lotus, the blogpost with this definition in it was only linked to in Thunder Lotus' newsletter, no other studios involved with the Triple-I Initiative have specifically cited this definition.

A few days ago I wrote a post about how the people selecting games for the "Triple-I Indie Showcase" must have a bizarre definition of "indie," but I deleted it as I felt like I was being a little rude about something that didn't really matter all that much, and because I wasn't quite able to articulate what I didn't like about the choices beyond "these feel like the sort of games that wouldn't even consider releasing on GoG at launch, let alone Itch.io" and "why is there a Ubisoft game in this???"

After seeing what their definition actually is, I kinda regret deleting it, because it's utterly ridiculous.

We have fewer issues with the traditional definition for III than for AAA as it’s based on quality, something each person can judge for themselves without having to sleuth through investment calls and press releases. (...)
In order to count as III a game needs to score 7 or more points out of a possible 10.

  1. Have no more than 50 employees in the core development team (Required)
  2. Have a budget for development and marketing exceeding $1M (2 pts)
  3. Receive a Metacritic score of at least 70 (2 pts)
  4. Exhibit a "high level of polish" and "few bugs" (2 pts)
  5. Have at least 20 hours of gameplay (1 pt)
  6. Make use of the latest technology and push technical boundaries (1 pt)
  7. Use hyper-realistic graphics at launch (1 pt)
  8. Not owned/funded by a large studio or publisher (1 pt)

"I want longer games with hyper-realistic graphics that cost at least $1M to make" is pretty much the antithesis of what I personally think of when I think of "indie," lmao.

@johnnemann put it well here:

All of the problems of gamer consumerism are on full display here - 'quality is an objective measure that we can all easily agree on', 'quality equates to fidelity and hours of play', and 'numeric scores are a good way of evaluating art'. I hate this so much that my respect for the studios involved has dropped significantly.

@lotus has a good article going into more detail about this, which you can read here: https://cohost.org/lotus/post/5421313-hi-my-previous-ram

Also, check out @bruno's reply to this for a much better critique of this than I was able to put together: https://cohost.org/bruno/post/5566284-yeah-a-lot-of-the-l


SomeEgrets
@SomeEgrets

i can't really add much here that hasn't already been said but i can tell you that im definitely not looking at indie or even well established small studio spaces for hyper-realistic graphics and pushing the boundaries of cutting edge technology

catering to the widest possible audience by having the flashiest, shiniest product with all the rough edges filed off is literally what AAA is for

❌ shorter games
❌ with worse graphics
❓by people who are paid more to work less


maff
@maff

this really feels like big companies trying to gentrify the space that indie devs carved for themselves


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in reply to @SnepShark's post:

this pisses me off immensely in ways i cant even begin to put into words.
hyper-realistic graphics and 20 hours of gameplay is the worst. the million dollar price barrier also pisses me off. it all does but those are the ones that stick out to me. they're just the most Gamer ass "Realism And Time Money Makes A Good Game" thought process.

If this was about their definition of AAA that'd be one thing, but their "this is the label for indie games that are good and worthy of promotion" definition including hyper-realistic graphics and 20 hours of gameplay is just, so far off the deep end I can't really believe it.

Like, how many IGF winners even come close to counting as "triple-I"???

According to the article that I got this from, Thunder Lotus (which is one of the studios running it, they did 33 Immortals) linked that tinyhydra article in their press release about the showcase.

Edit: I'm having trouble verifying that claim though, none of the articles currently in the press releases section of their site mention anything about the Triple-I Initiative beyond the fact that 33 Immortals had a trailer in the showcase. I do still think that the general point holds even if their definition isn't quite this bizarre, though, haha.

Edit 2: Looks like it was in their newsletter, rather than their press releases. I can't access old newsletter issues, but I trust that it was there.

If you're on the hook for $1 million in marketing, someone's pulling your purse-strings. That's not what "independent" means by any stretch.
Unless it's Valve, who are the most successful indie video-game company of all time, as they create the game, publish the game, and distribute the game all by themselves, without any stock-holders or parent-companies to answer to.

It's notable that Valve were self funded: Gave Newell and Mike Harrington funded it with money from making it big as early employees at Microsoft.

I think this was essential for them to get where they are now: because Half-Life would have been a bad game if development had been funded by a publisher and Steam would never have taken off without successful first party games.

(They created Half-Life almost twice: they got close to finishing a first version of the game, then played it and decided it was not good. So they rebooted development and the second version was great. It is most likely that a publisher funding development would have made them finish and release the first version.)

Oh, all very true. That's the darker side of this "indie" discussion. If indie was supposed to mean "driven by content, not by other factors"... I can't imagine any company other than Valve would not just shelve Artifact, but also make it open source.
When Blizzard re-released Warcraft 3, they made everyone who plays it agree that any mods they make belong to Blizzard. 🙁

Yes, Sierra handled distribution (actually getting the software onto store shelves and into customer hands). However, they didn't finance development (giving the studio loans to fund development, with a contract that pays back those loans from game sales further down the line.)

Financing is the part that gives publishers huge power over a studio.

i hadn't even heard of whatever this is but wow

extremely fucking wild to just straight up put "must not have an art style" in your list of criteria for a good game

i'm losing my mind at how "not owned by a large studio" (the definition of indie) is worth 1 point and how "has more than a million fucking dollars to spend" (the opposite of indie) is worth twice that

And since it was developed by a core team of 15, it counts as "triple-I!"

It does lose a point for being owned by Nintendo, but otherwise to the standards of the hardware and time period, I think it meets every other scoring criteria, haha

Hilarious that they built a list of criteria to essentially say "look, your game should feel AAA, but also be like, waaaaay cheaper."

Kind of insanely depressing that "AAA-feeling" is now a niche that needs to be filled by people other than those in AAA but that's what ballooning budgets and 5+ years development cycles get you I guess.