mammonmachine

Don’t follow me if

I wrote and directed WE KNOW THE DEVIL and HEAVEN WILL BE MINE. I also wrote for NEON WHITE and I currently work at game company doing game things.


I liked Dante's post coining this idea of "direct" and "indirect" lore, and it immediately made me realize that what Really Annoys me about Lore as a modern multimedia franchise concept doesn't have anything to do with it. I know now exactly what I dislike about lore and it's not about how important or relevant the franchise apocrypha is to my understanding of a work, though I agree that when storytelling gets catalogued and summarized into a page on a wiki, something is happening that can leave a funny taste in my mouth. What I'm reacting to isn't the way that corpo-centric media tries to snare me with breadcrumb-trails of building context that necessitates me obsessing over everything they put out and thus buying all their shit, it's that reading storytelling as lore does something weird to the original story that can strip out its emotional heart and necessary context. My idea here is that Lore is actually a process, a way of reading a story, and not the substance of the story itself.

Lore Is A Process

Try this theory if you'd like: "Storytelling" is the primary sources, the actual thing itself you're watching or reading and "Lore" is an explanation of what happened in the primary source. Storytelling becomes lore at the point that someone has to explain what happened in the story; this is something like the distinction between primary and secondary sources. I think of this as the distinction because what shows up in fanwikis, explainers, criticism, and casual conversation is the Lore, because the Storytelling is just the Thing Itself. This is true because when you look at a story answering any questions about what happened in it, why and how and what motivated the actors in it, necessarily means interpreting the text.

This is true even if the text is incredibly obtuse, like Bloodborne or something by Gene Wolfe, or as on the nose as possible, like Star Wars or something by C.S. Lewis. Sure, the author can be screaming at you to interpret the text exactly like so, but why should you believe that jerk over your own eyes? Authors love to say their text means something, only to fall on their ass trying to depict it and end up with a text that can actually say something else. At a certain point you have to do the work to decide what happened in a story and what it meant, either on your own time as a fan or with others as part of a fan community or as a substantial portion of your actual real life job (like mine!).

I realize this is a very different idea of lore than the common one, which probably most people would define as something like “text strings that appear on item descriptions” or any other in-game storytelling that purposefully provokes the reader’s interest and imagination, and most importantly their tendency to speculate. I secretly think these text strings are actually still Storytelling, we just call them lore because they are designed purposefully to be interpreted by the readers and thus have a close relationship with the sort of information and minute details that end up on wikis. But text strings attached to an item and text strings attached to NPCs are basically the same from the author's perspective (because I write them both) and are also the same to the reader's perspective, because reader interpretation is a process that happens to both. Yes, it's easier to quote a character directly saying a truth about the world and gleaning obscure facts about a fictional world's economics from an item description, but you actually have to interpret both! If you write in the fan wiki page that two characters were in love, how do you actually know? how much? How sincere? In what way? Once you start trying to describe the relationship, you've left primary source town and are doing work. Sometimes that work is really beautiful to witness and read and sometimes it sucks and also in the process teaches people to read and respond to storytelling in a way that also sucks.

And The Process Sucks

The Wikia-fication of storytelling and lore is bad not because cataloguing the obsessive tiniest details of a fictional universe is bad (I think it’s fun!), it’s because trying to process human Storytelling the same way we’d try to catalogue real life physics or historical events or biographies leads to a disturbingly infectious tendency to forget the essential context that fiction is fiction, and the events of the story happen not because of the forces of history or physics or human interaction but because an author or authors made it up. Wikis specifically have this tendency to want to discuss everything from an “in-universe” perspective, something that feels to me as overly literal and lacking in self-awareness, and it models that way of reading stories and perpetuates it further.

I’m sympathetic to this a little bit the literal events of the story are important to catalogue. But presenting the fictional events of a story as if they were facts is inherently missing something important about fiction. The wiki-fication or lore-ification of storytelling is the tendency to only see this layer, and miss out on what the text is actually saying. Fiction is not just a sequence of events, and even the cataloguing of those events is subjective. Thinking it isn't is a consequence of not recognizing the subjective layers of fiction and treating it all as if it were the real history of another universe. This matters for readers to have healthy relationships with fiction and it matters for artists because while you want your story to make sense within the context of the fictional universe the only reason you are telling a story in the first place is to say something true to your authentic beliefs, as meaningful and true as you can.

But Not Always and Not Forever

That's the end, that's me on lore right now. But while lore annoys me sometimes, I also love it, and I don't think this process is inherently wrong or bad. Cataloguing the rules of a fictional universe and taking them seriously can be really fun and make for good storytelling as well, when it’s applied with some self-awareness.

I mean, you KNOW I love Mobile Suit Gundam, a series that is nothing but a compilation of various interpretations of a universe in practically all imaginable directions. A lot of work that isn’t necessarily very sophisticated itself can provoke the imagination, and it’s not bad to look at a setting and ask yourself what life in it would actually be like especially when you have a clear goal in mind.

Gundam wouldn’t be what it is if there wasn’t this deep conviction in the text itself that what mattered more than anything was to convey how chaotic and horrible and tragic and unfair war is. Even when Gundam completely fails to convincingly achieve this, even when it's chained to looking like a toy commercial and the budget hits rock bottom, this conviction guides it, so strong it inspires you to keep believing in the text even when it fails. That’s the good lore; when you look at this shoestring budget toy commercial’s aspirations and take it seriously enough to be inspired to try to make something new.


You must log in to comment.

in reply to @mammonmachine's post:

The process read is interesting! Lore like a mold on top of the original experience. Usually bad, sometimes you make uhhh I guess cheese in this metaphor. Or LSD.

On a recent podcast someone described wanting lore as being "content brain" which really got me too.

Another thing that I decided to stop short of talking about was the alternatives to Content Brain or wiki-fication or the like. There's Actually Good criticism for one, but also stuff like fan art and fanfiction that obsesses over emotional chemistry and uses fictional characters as a medium for the artist to talk about their own hyper-personal feelings and that's a really different relationship with the text. I'm a little more endeared to this kind of behavior though it also has its own toxic and un-selfaware side; artists believing they are simply expanding on established fact and aggressively dismissing alternative interpretations, without understanding they're going off on their own no matter how based in 'canon' they believe their work to be. Still, at least they are grasping the substance of the story and not just the rote facts.

This is great. Feels kind of orthogonal to my point but I totally agree with what you're getting at here, and it's one of the things that I love to chew on.

Like, setting aside the definitional stuff - I think what I think is extremely fucking crucial to "Good Storytelling" is constantly asking yourself does this suit my story?

Like, I love doing mechanical worldbuilding by creating a whole-ass fictional universe and charting out its histories and factions and map and shit, but when you get to The Story, when you get to Actually Writing The Thing, you have to kind of look at all your worldbuilding scaffolding and, before deploying it into The Thing (as direct lore! wow i'm using my own definition) running that quick check of does this serve my story?

If i set up a fantasy universe where everything runs on Goldmantium Ore and a character is explaining how they got their Goldmantium sword and I know that i have a detailed history concept of how Goldmantium ore entered this realm i have to ask... does it matter? Like, does it matter in this story moment.

Because it might! Maybe that goldmantium ore has some symbolic resonance with the character's backstory or whatever. Maybe that story does echo some of the current themes, current context of the story. In that case, maybe I go for it and i make sure the reader is aware of that resonance.

But also - maybe it doesn't. Maybe the origin of goldmantium ore kind of isn't important to the reader, at this time, in this story. Maybe adding that detail wouldn't actually make my world more interesting and it might be better to keep that vague and unknown! That's the part of this that feels so hard to pick apart and entirely contextual.

Anyway good post.

Thank you! I really like the direct/indirect definition as this check on how much detail you can or should go into; if it's better to keep it mysterious or if by making it more clear you can actually add more texture and richness to the story. Since it's fundamentally a question of what is actually serving the story, it got me thinking on this particular track. The missing the story for the lore is a problem on both the author and reader side and it comes out in wikis and "lore" so that's what sent me in this direction, and I think in the end it's additive rather than a rebuttal or even alternate definition. I ended up completely agreeing on the point that indirect lore can be not just fun and indulgent but good storytelling too, and then I realized, wait, there is something I DO really dislike about "lore" and was able to pin it down.

One thing that I've been thinking about a lot and had to stop myself from even broaching to keep the post reasonably long is how when you sand off the story from the rote facts of the setting, one of the things that's lost isn't just the emotive heart or meaning but something like its tone. Not every story takes place in a universe of literary realism; what if characters are allowed to be melodramatic or the setting can be stylish and vibes rather than dry military sci-fi (which itself leans on genre cliche that doesn't necessarily realistically represent how real humans actually behave). So every single wiki takes this objective realist perspective that is great for cataloguing sci-fi physics but has zero genre awareness and can't reflect on the tonal quality of the work, or the idea that characters might do things for funny cartoon reasons. Or are the details of the settings there because you want to set up a world where industry is complex and important (Mass Effect), or one where vibes are important (Elden Ring).

I don't think fans are interested in this (ones that run wikis aren't, at any rate) but I am pretty interested and it's something I feel should get captured somewhere to keep tonal consistency and keep that emotive core feel like it runs through the whole work. This is pretty hard to ensure at a big broad level but I think it matters on at least a work by work basis. The style guide, basically, which is something that's a lot trickier to agree on than the historical facts of the universe, but inform whether or not they're important. Do we WANT to go into the full geopolitical situation in a game about strong character personality? If there isn't consideration for the tone and storytelling, the lore starts to take over everything else and everything turns into "What If My Little Pony Was Warhammer 40K"

Yeah, this is one of the reasons I think that like... wikis aren't really built for capturing that sort of emotional core. Without going into too much detail that was a huge part of my job like 2-3 years ago, figuring out how to balance "well we need the wiki-style details but we can't just say 'you can just read the wiki' because frankly that's insufficient".

There's a different type of information, and a different type of intended reading, with a "wiki-style pseudohistorical" viewpoint on a story than the story itself. You can attempt to hack them together by, for example, including a "story themes" section at the bottom of your ASOIAF wikipage for Cersei or whatever, but that doesn't really get it.

From an observer perspective (not a creator perspective - i think that's a slightly diff conversation) wiki-style lore cataloguing is only sometimes helpful and almost never "complete" in the sense that it captures the feeling of reading the story. It can't really do that - in order to do that you have to... well, read the story.

You cannot get the same experience from reading a stack of wiki pages. You can get a different experience (possibly a very useful/fun/interesting one, if that's what you're into or looking for) but I agree, it's insufficient to convey the actual... tone of the story. It loses things, because it's ingesting material not intended for the medium.

Yeah. Databases are not especially good at evoking emotions! Or to put it more succinctly, atomizing experiences just leaves you with the atoms, not the experiences.

One of my favorite things about what often gets called lore is how it can outright contradict itself or undercut other parts of the text. Is the person who wrote this or that item description trustworthy? Are they seeing things clearly?

I also would argue that the closest comparison to the way "item lore" is used in video games would be the way footnotes are used in novels like Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. Like you argued, those footnotes do have one single writer, the author of the primary text, and are therefore not so easily written off as ancillary.

The narrative voice of a game (or a book) must remain consistent, but branching out into lore descriptions allows the text to evolve or subvert itself in ways that can be trickier when done in the narrative voice required by the "main narrative." Or maybe the intent is to tuck a secret counterreading away, as if the narrative itself is afraid of it.