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Pauline-Ragny
@Pauline-Ragny

When folks encounter a video game challenge that requires a high degree of mechanical skills, like a boss fight in a Devil May Cry or Bayonetta, I find that they are generally more willing to try and try again or even maybe admit they are not skilled enough to do it. When it comes to puzzles though... I've observed that many players do not like the idea they couldn't solve them. They will call them bullshit. "How was I supposed to figure this out?" Puzzles test your logic reasoning skill. In our society we have a tendency to associate that particular skill with the completely fake concept of intelligence. So when you can't solve something, it's like being told to your face that you're not very smart. Just go on the comments of a solution video for any of the trickier Baba is You puzzles. You'll find plenty of people complaining it was unintuitive or the game made them feel stupid.

But here's the thing. I firmly believe puzzle solving has nothing to do with "intelligence". It's a skill, and like any other skills, it can be learned and honed with a lot of practice. No one expects a player new to fighting games to be able to win a tournament without first learning and practicing the fundamentals. Why should it be any different for logic puzzles?

Here are a few things that personally helped my puzzle solving skills:


SomeEgrets
@SomeEgrets

all of this, but i desperately need to add that you are absolutely just allowed to trial and error things to feel out the me mechanics and develop an intuitive sense of an unknown system, then refine that to an understanding

this is a drum i will bang on all day

we're conditioned against doing this so hard almost from day one! i need you to understand that all of our education and formative experiences and job training run counter to this!

if you think about how we're taught to learn things from literally before we are able to read or write or reason about numbers, someone sits us down and tells us how to do a thing. we're told to maybe repeat it an annoying number of times in isolation with different words or numbers (nobody likes this) and no feedback, then we're tested on it

if you get something wrong, you get your answer marked by the big shameful red pen and a bad grade. at no point is there ever a feedback step where you're shown how you made a mistake and are given the opportunity to understand your error and correct it, in a context where this is seen as a positive and rewarding step

this is critical! it's a fundamental building block of human knowledge! people our culture typically portrays as "smart" are doing this all the time! so much of our collective knowledge and understanding is not built on the perfect synthesis of new ideas in a vacuum and "Eureka!" moments, but by the willingness to be repeatedly incredibly wrong until we understand enough that we start being somewhat less wrong1

and that's kind of the energy i hope people can bring to puzzle games, or any other game with a challenge they can overcome by understanding, or many other non-game fields you might encounter


  1. obviously like how puzzles often have a common history and design language that you can learn to better understand them, im not suggesting that it makes sense to trial and error everything from the ground up. there's usually some kind of common reference you can use as building blocks to get started!


morayati
@morayati

These aren't mutually exclusive, but in my experience, people tend to be naturally inclined toward one or two of them, and different puzzle games tend to reward some more than others.

A few broad methods:

  • Systematizing. This is what most people think of when they think of puzzle-solving. Itemize the rules and make logical conclusions based on them. Generalize the specific puzzle to a broader kind of puzzle, and figure out how the general solution applies. (The original poster here very clearly enjoys systematizing.) This tends to be seen as the "right" way to solve puzzles, but it's one of many.

  • Experimentation, aka "fuck around and find out." Try things until you get an outcome that surprises you, yields fruit, or is just different from other outcomes you've seen. (The second poster here very clearly enjoys experimentation.) Adventure games tend to reward experimentation. So do games where there are a lot of new interactions to discover. (I'm pretty sure that at least half of the levels I solved in Patrick's Parabox hinged on my doing something and thinking "wait, what just happened?")

  • Observation, aka noticing clues. Puzzles are artificial environments. Someone designed them. Things are the way they are for a reason, and an important puzzle-solving skill is the skill of looking at a puzzle's initial state and noticing things that look kind of sus.

Since the OP mentions Baba Is You, I'll use it as an example. Here is one of the late-game levels, "VIP Area." Its solution doesn't rely on any quirks or logical extensions of the rules -- or at least none that you haven't already seen if you've reached this level. The solution relies on you noticing a few unusual things about the layout. See if you can spot them:

The Baba Is You level VIP Area

The first important tile is this:

The Baba Is You level VIP Area, with one key tile highlighted

Notice how the surrounding wall is completely smooth and uniform -- except for this one little gap, which just so happens to be near a bunch of other objects and accessible by you. That's odd! Even if you know absolutely nothing else about the solution, you can guess that it will probably involve doing something with this weird, conspicuous gap.

There are a couple other things to notice. You have a single-tile wall just hanging out by itself, and you have a "tunnel" of three tiles near the bottom. These aren't there just to look cool. They are there for a reason.

(Again, these puzzle-solving methods aren't mutually exclusive. For instance, you're probably not solving this level if you didn't previously solve Prison, since the basic maneuvers here are similar. And if you figured out how to position yourself in the right place by doing something more organized than messing around, that's cool; I definitely didn't.)


vectorpoem
@vectorpoem

These posts are great and I don't want to contradict anything they've said, but add a few points:

  • "Lateral leaps" are another ingredient of puzzle design, most commonly used by old adventure games. Puzzles that lean on these often bend or break established rules, or carve out special cases, deliberately cutting across the lines you might draw in your head trying to map and "systematize" the design space, thinking deductively etc. When they're designed well, they feel like a well-told joke. When designed poorly they feel obnoxious and arbitrary.
  • This is another case where I think understanding games as a web of interrelated creative traditions is useful. There are so many different puzzle design aesthetics and they each leverage very different kinds of thinking, and are aimed at a wide range of creative goals: storytelling, humor, learning, traditional "brain teasing", the sort of mind-expanding "think about this thing in a way you never have before" (I don't have a good term for these haha) revelations, etc. Because people get very psychologically invested in their own sense of "intelligence" - because our society basically tells you that you are worthless if you're not smart, and will starve to death! - they develop weird superiority complices around what types of puzzle they feel is the best, ie the "smartest". But it's all just art, and pretending there's some objectively "best" form is silly.
  • Intelligence is fake. Which is to say, what we call "intelligence" is really just a massive bag of different capabilities, frameworks for thinking, knowledge domains, that each individual builds to varying degrees throughout their life. The people who are most obsessed with measuring intelligence are eugenicists and heyyy, maybe don't drink too much of their ideology! We like to feel smart, puzzles in games are an enjoyable way to poke different parts of our brains, but it's worth acknowledging that that feeling is a social-political domain with some real stakes for how different people are treated and what kinds of human experience, and labor, are valued or not valued.

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in reply to @Pauline-Ragny's post:

If you get stuck, and can't see a move that works, consider trying things you already "know" won't work. Often while playing puzzle games, we make subconscious assumptions about what the rules are, and this can include things which are not actually rules.

Our belief that certain things won't work prevents us from attempting them, which can make it impossible to notice the solution to a problem. This is called being "blinkered," and people do it to themselves a lot in all kinds of situations. Have you really tried everything? Or just every move you know you can make? Methodically testing your own assumptions about the rules can be the key to discovering the new rule that leads to a valid solution!

Oh, that reminds me I also want to add the classic "Hug the left hand wall in a maze" tip. I think probably everyone knows it, and mazes aren't the highest tier of puzzles by any stretch, but this is a very helpful tip in all sorts of maze-like puzzle solutions, and it's something I use a lot in first person games with mazes and/or dungeon crawling.

Evem if you have no other means to orient yourself, you can always hug the left wall. Start wherever you are, and follow until you find something interesting, be it a landmark, an exit, or evidence that you've covered all the ground you can with that approach, because even that tells you important things about the maze you're in, and which paths to explore next. The only exception is deathtrap mazes, because the left hand wall will lead you to your doom. But still, you should follow it until you find the trap before turning back and trying another path. Always go left!

Along these lines, my favourite trick that shows up in a lot of puzzles is learning to recognise parity when you see it! If things are arranged on a grid, or you're taking turns against some agent, or doing something in pairs, or if it seems like you should be able to do something but it just doesn't work and you can't tell why, it will often be helpful to assign things to "even" or "odd" (visually, often like white or black squares on a chessboard) and work out if the pattern is or can be broken somehow. The mutilated chessboard problem is unsolvable, a rubiks cube with centres missing requires one more algorithm, T pieces are especially annoying in classic tetris, and being able to wait one turn in a simple roguelike is very powerful, all for basically the same reason.

And that in itself is a basic puzzle solving tool that makes mazes much easier! Like you could derive it yourself eventually, but people smarter than us have been here before, and the left hand rule is just a short-distance example of a shortcut/tool.

(Excepting a puzzle I once saw in a work where the characters had to not touch the walls for three hours to get the door open, which was there specifically to counter the left hand rule…)

I don't know much of a good way to practice it, but along the same vein as looking up tutorials is learning common patterns to classic puzzles. Things like Tetris, Puyo-Puyo, and Minesweeper have particular arrangements that by effect of the mechanisms of the game frequently arise, and being able to pick those out among a larger tableau can get you moving towards a solution.

I like and hate puzzle games and I think its this part you mention; solving puzzles without understanding how one did it. I uh, brute force a lot of puzzles. I know ive gotten so mad at myself I just ragequit handful of baba puzzles, I stopped playing snakebird because it became impossible, and I had to refund void stranger because the puzzles were way too hard and it was too easy to make mistakes in a game that expected you to solve puzzles repeatedly without mistakes.

Though I'm realizing in writing this and thinking about it, the games where I've taken notes are the ones I actually completed. La Mulana, Tunic, but I never considered doing so for something like baba. Would that change my playing these games from brute forcing to actually solving things more? Even the Layton games I have completed them half the time with just savescumming and trial and error. That one puzzle where you get the red block out comes to mind; I never applied any logic to it I just moved pieces around for HOURS until it just happened to work. I did intuit how to solve sliding puzzles as a kid somehow in Wind Waker but Im not sure that's happened after that.

I'm comment rambling at this point. This post was insightful and I guess when I tackle outer wilds I'll have to keep these things in mind.

Bit of a spoiler but there is a optional thing you can do in Void Stranger that removes the need to have to solve lots of puzzles with no mistakes allowed. I enabled it nearly straight away. Love the game but that aspect just feels stupid tedious and boeing to me of no failiing allowed for optimal playthrough with puzzles

Sometimes you need patience to solve really hard puzzles and be OK to get stuck on the same puzzle for days or weeks or even years. It's an acquired skill and nothing you have naturally. When I played Baba I didn't have the patience and used guides/walkthroughs to solve many of the puzzles. Now I've played enough puzzle games that I can at least accept I can't solve puzzles right away.

I usually screen-record playing games, and noticed an interesting pattern in myself: When I start feeling I've been on a single puzzle for too long, that's usually only 4-5 minutes after starting solving it.

Also it's worth noting that Baba Is You and Snakebird are on the far difficult side, while Patrick's Parabox is slightly on the easy side. To my surprise many people who haven't played them seem to assume they all have similar difficulty.

It can be tricky, but it's useful to be able to switch back and forth between Assume Nothing and Assume One or More Things, as the latter can greatly reduce the number of potential solutions you have to explore.

If a game just taught you a mechanic, there's a decent chance it applies to the next few puzzles. There's one Void Stranger puzzle in particular that I've seen at least a dozen people struggle with because they had put the lesson of the previous two puzzles out of their minds.

Solid, solid post. I play a lot of variant sudoku in my downtime; I started out by watching a lot of videos of more expert solves, but also solves of GAS, "generally approachable sudoku," and gradually built a base of understanding for how to tackle these puzzles. Plus I do regularly go back and solve puzzles I've already solved before, which helps the rules of the different variants stick in my mind more.

That initial point is extremely noticeable with how people talked about Tunic. You see them try and try again to beat bosses, but then, even puzzles they would know how to solve and would take less time are seen as bigger hurdles, and they go look at guides.
The fact that they got tired fighting bosses might not help, but yeah the challenge of puzzles is definitely seen differently as usual action skills.

Also the rubber ducking part is my number one rec for puzzle solving. It's always about asking questions. The bests guides around are hints in the form of questions. When a friend was streaming puzzles and wanted hints, I asked him relatively obvious questions he knew the answer to. Being able to ask the right question is the main skill in puzzle solving imo

As a puzzle game creator, the most consistently painful feedback I receive is being told "I think I'm not smart enough for this game." And, just... No! No, no no no a thousand times no! You're smart! I just failed to give you the mental tools for this, as a designer!

Obstacles to overcome are not things to beat yourself up about, just be patient and kind with yourself, and take it one step at a time.

One specific puzzle tip I'd like to impart because I think it made my life better: if you've played scrabble, you know the most common letters are valued with the least points. If you're doing a crossword puzzle and you notice a potential answer is all one-point tiles in scrabble, almost invariably it is the right answer, because crosswords need a whole lot of words with common letters to enable the whole thing to work at all.

excellent post! 😄 One funny side thing for me is, i actually find myself thinking "how was i supposed to know that?!" more for action games compared to puzzle games! After great effort, i can take out half the boss's HP with my current strategy before dying, how was i supposed to know that i'm expected to counter-hit after the slam move to stun them for huge damage? I thought i just needed to do the same thing for twice as long with half as many mistakes, since that would work too 😆

with a puzzle game, i know that if it feels too hard then that means i'm missing key information, while a lot of other games make it really blurry! Thanks for the good post ❤️

in reply to @morayati's post:

ahhhh, i meant to reply to this but my horrible meat-brain just dropped that task thread for a few days...

you've absolutely 100% correctly identified me as someone who enjoys experimenting, though. my entire formative child+teen programming years were just sitting down in an text mode IDE to try things and see what they did, or making changes to existing programs to see what changed. like, i worked out that you could use sin() and cos() to map angles to points on a circle by trial and error with no trig education at the time! (even decades later, i'm still proud of this!)

but i think the main thing i really wanted to get across is that regardless of your approach, we're so rarely rewarded for constructive failure - getting something wrong but learning from it. Even for systems people, a failed attempt may reveal a new rule, or for observation people, a new intermediate step that gives a hint about the designer's intent!

(and yeah i know i'm kind of looking at both of these approaches from an experimenter's mindset here, but there is definitely some room for synergy between approaches!)

anyway sorry i can't remember if i rebugged this at the time, but it's a good copost!

in reply to @vectorpoem's post:

in reply to @vectorpoem, re. 'the sort of mind-expanding "think about this thing in a way you never have before" (I don't have a good term for these haha) revelations'
I think this covers two different things that I think of as (1) '"aha!" moments' and (2) 'epiphanies'. The distinction I'd make is that an "aha!" moment is when your systemic understanding is suddenly reframed, changing the potentialities of mechanical interactions, and the thing I call an ephiphany is when your thematic understanding is suddenly reframed, which can not only change the meaning of stories and so on, but also reveals paths and relationships in the system too.