mutanthunt

ook meubels

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sylvie
@sylvie

the game design lens that has served me well for like 10+ years is to assume that all "bad game design" you encounter (whether it's something you personally dislike or something you see people complain about online) was intentionally and deliberately crafted by someone who sincerely felt it was "good game design" and try to understand it from that perspective. what if grinding for health after you die in nes metroid creates a meditative preparatory period before you dive into the harsh alien world? what if running out of lives and having to replay earlier levels in old action games makes you engage with the levels more deeply and learn new facets of them? maybe the actual historical reason was so you couldn't beat the game in a rental, but why don't you pretend that games are made by artists who believe in their work for a moment?


milkybootscomix
@milkybootscomix

I wrote about something tangentially related to this for Fanbyte a couple years ago! It's about the purpose of negative space. https://www.fanbyte.com/games/features/negative-space-games/


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in reply to @sylvie's post:

It's funny, the more old, or janky, or unpolished a game is, the more likely I am to just take it at face value. It's always the super polished AAA zero friction games where I start getting mad about the designers. And even that's not fair, they're accomplishing what they set out to do, even if I don't like it... but it's weirdly harder for me to ignore.

w/r/t corporate releases in the last >15 years.... (what i'm about to say is some EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY case by case stuff) i think there are a lot of design decisions that get too much benefit of the doubt, actually. there's a lot of focus-tested-dopamine-drip going on and i will never stop ranting about how much damage cod4 did.

Oh I found the comment button!

So the way I tend to view "Bad Game Design" is, I think of every game design decision as making Some Sense in the context of the work that it's in. For instance, farming health in a game might be a nice change in pacing. It's been proven to me time and again that always having full supplies and going high octane from one place to another just fatigues me of the game. I LIKE it when games slow down in emergent ways based on how my exploration went, actually.
Having a penalty for failure (be that running out of lives and restarting from an earlier part of the game, or otherwise) is incredibly important, because otherwise the player's actions have no consequences. It can be proven, again, that some players just don't take a game's mechanics seriously unless there are consequences for failure, and the harshness threshold just depends on the person.

It turns out, for people with harsher opinions about video game design decisions, that game designers do play their own games, and make decisions for a good reason. No developer wants their game to be bad or frustrating or inconvenient. That's pretty much the mantra you gotta live by: "No developer wants their game to be bad, so given that fact, why is this in the game?"

thinking the game is easy, a mindset to remember for being rewarding when some way of it being easy is found. yet may need to look elsewhere if still wondering how it is possible, but the energy from a tick of pretending it is easy creates valuable experience.

pacing is feels different by executive function. if you are put in a rest zone, you may still be thinking about the previous zone for 0-10 minutes. if the new zone isnt giving feedback about the previous zone it may be considered boring or hard.
i think a lot of what i may value behavioral aesthetically is tied in doing things like 'yes a rest zone time to rest.. etc' vs taking 10 mins to see what this zone says about the previous one which is still in mind.

its less tiring to think what the creator had in mind if it is not a matter of 'solve the design mystery of the one truth' but more like materials and looking at different contexts you've gathered it could effect your attention it. it is why everyone is important because often times an answer to something impossible is waiting in someone's random situation that you haven't seen before and would miss considering like the one corridor of a maze.

there was one game i was playing recently where the final level was way harder than the rest, and i died like 20 times, and ended up quitting the game for 2 years! Then i came back and played through all the early levels again for more practice and now it's one of my favorite games that i've played so many times.

if it was meaner and just gave me a Game Over when i was dying so much, to kick me back to the earlier levels right away, then i would've skipped that 2-year gap! 😆

your perspective here is really good!!

this is how i felt reading every review complaining about the combat or platforming or stuff in Northern Journey. No, actually, i think it's all beautiful and i'm going to treat it as such, and the fact that all your weapons suck ass is good and beautiful and helps me enjoy this

I try to think about things this way, and I still can't wrap my head around Active Time Battle systems. I would love someone who likes them explaining what they achieve better than real turns or real action systems, it just seems like the worst of both worlds to me.

i don't think i agree with the premise of the question, that ATB is supposed to be "better" or "worse" than other systems instead of just different.... depending on the speed, ATB can feel like a turn-based game with light time pressure, or an action game about efficient and reactive menu navigation. i played facets recently (https://farawaytimes.itch.io/facets) which has interesting ATB mechanics leaning heavily towards the "menu navigation action" side.. thinking of ATB as "the worst of two specific worlds" doesn't really make sense to me, it's just its own collection of worlds

in reply to @milkybootscomix's post: