ninecoffees

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  • she/her

Extremely useful 🇹🇼 Asian ⚧️ lesbian🏳️‍🌈
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priv acc @finecoffees (mutuals only! this is where i'm authentic and real with my thoughts, also horny posting)
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Writer, VIVIAN VIOLET, THE GOOD WEAPON
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currently learning to code (HELP PLS)
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I occasionally post about coffees and baking
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massive proponent of walkable cities, public transport infrastructure, and undoing the destruction of Henry Fucking Ford
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Always open to asks!


ninecoffees
@ninecoffees
NekoRaita
@NekoRaita asked:

I'm probably making a big mistake and would like some advice :')

I'm making a game for myself without monetary incentive or deadlines. Because of that, I'm not following any industry standarts. That includes making a prototype to test story, gameplay, etc. Theoretically I could scrap everything and start from 0 anytime I want.

One big problem is that my game is heavily dependent on good dialogue and good character writing (big mistake). Also my game is a linear story that goes from point A to point B through visual novel storytelling style (another big mistake). The problem is: I've never done any writing.

Right now I have some determined points in my script that I'm mostly unwilling to change (another big mistake, I think), specially beginning, ending, and some characters background/personality. Right now I'm totally focused in coding and art, in other words, I have a lot of time to write a script.

Do you have any advice for someone that wants to get better at writing until I think I'm good enough to write a script for my dream game? :')

Sorry for the big ask, I'm always willing to help with code!

As much as I would like to help you, and as much as I understand the good will being directed here, I can only say that I'm not a narrative writer. All I do in my spare time is some dumb novels and blogposts solely written for me. Game and script narrative is a fully dedicated profession with a very different approach, not just in the writing and construction, but also in the ways it is edited. I cannot comment on this. It is far beyond my scope and ability.

My only advice to you is the same advice you will hear everywhere else: just do it. Truthfully, sincerely, there's no other way to get better at writing. I can't give you a series of exercises to repeat over and over again, because unlike gym where we are building a specific set of gains, writing is fully dependent on your own personal taste. When I edit other people's work, I am fully conscious of their own writing style, their taste in pacing, their desire for hot steamy fuckery or cold insidious calculations (that may lead to hot steamy fuckery). I do not change any of those. Their personality has to shine through; their thoughts, their observations must be uniquely their own. If it doesn't, I tell them that you have nothing to say. Come back to me when you do.

You need to write and write until you find your own voice. It will be tempting to ape someone else's style. Sure, some people do that. I have heard of those who type out entire chapters to copy a specific voice. I will not begrudge you based on what you choose. But more than anything, I am just asking you to shove those words down onto the page. You will notice, soon enough, if you are a clean first drafter or if you're a vomit and edit tomorrow type of person. I am both, depending on my mood or scene.

The point is to find out who you are. Your ideal audience should be you.

I would also kindly dispel the ideal of a 'dream game' for it places a massive burden on yourself. When starting out, our taste is always all the way up there but our skill unfortunately lies at a different level. Take your time and be satisfied with your output. Your 'masterpiece' will come and go. You'll start work on it only to properly test it as vertical slice and find it trips on the first step. That is not failure. That is simply how it is. How you choose to go forward--to iterate or abandon--is up to you.

There will be another 'masterpiece' waiting. Ideas are cheap, after all.


amaranth-witch
@amaranth-witch

I was not the original recipient of the ask but I have a couple of specifics to tack on to this honestly already excellent advice, expanding on things that maddie already said above (and throwing maybe a thought or two more into the ring).

First: framing. OP, I get the humor and I get that you're being honest, but be careful with the self-deprecation. There's a fine line between admitting that you're worried your reach will exceed your grasp and that you've chosen a task you haven't the skills for, and reinforcing "this is a mistake I am a bad writer" over and over again. While it's not possible in any world I know to magically make yourself a good writer through the power of affirmation and repetition alone, the more you repeat to yourself that you are a bad writer, the more you will be a bad writer. Not because you never develop skills, but because you foster dead angles and bad habits and other ways that you'll never see the improvement in your writing, because you're busily reinforcing that you are a bad writer and all this reliance on good writing is a mistake.

Second: done is done. Everyone will (rightly) tell you "just do it", but what they don't always get around to is: when you're writing a game, until you've developed your own process that gives you better results, write to finish. Don't write to perfection or to polish: write until each scene has the whole shape it needs, and then be done, and go on to the next scene. Do not be afraid to be messy. Do not be afraid to "write" a line of "dialog" that literally reads "character says catchphrase which will foreshadow the duel on the clocktower in act 4 scene 3 fill in later". Your first gamescript pass is you setting down "OK, what's the shape of what needs to be said". Once you have that shape, you can then refine it, because it's done and you don't have to worry about remembering your references or pre-planning your verbal habits for different characters: you can fill in and elaborate on the script in future passes.

Third: "Masterpiece" used to mean something different. Yeah, these days it's taken as various forms of "crowning achievement" and "perfect representative" but the term was coined back in craft-guild days to reference "good enough" works. A "masterpiece" was alternately "a piece with craftsmanship showing the skill of a master" or, more frequently, "the piece created for submission to the guild in order to prove that a journeyman should be considered for promotion to master". It's a big deal, but it's not supposed to be some lifetime pinnacle achievement: a masterpiece doesn't mark the END of a journey, but rather the START of a journey, a frame change and demonstration of skill.

I'm not saying you'll churn out masterpieces by the dozen if only you start writing, but I am saying that setting your sights on an appropriate definition of masterpiece may well be much easier than you thought; but also be patient, be diligent, and set your sights on the actual, meaningful, actionable "this is a masterpiece; it's my bid to prove I am a master", rather than the busted aspirational older-media "this is my crowning legacy, it's in a class of its own, influencing generations to come".


ninecoffees
@ninecoffees

Following up on Mara's point on 'masterpieces', when I learnt writing, it certainly was used in the way she wrote it out. You were meant to work on your 'masterpiece' every single time--i.e. while it was not meant to be the crown jewel, it certainly was meant to be the best thing you can conceive in the moment because you were pushing something very specific. And working on it will humble you. It teaches you, truly, that ideas are cheap. You never needed to build yourself up to hit that dream. I will write my 'masterpiece' and find that while the initial premise did hit, the rest of the execution remained terribly generic. This too is the learning process.

Every piece you work on should--eventually, ideally--be a 'masterpiece' in its own way. It should test and strain your own limits. In the beginning, everything will. Frustration will come, but understand that this is a good thing.


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in reply to @ninecoffees's post:

this! somehow I missed out on the most important part. reading other people's works frees your mind because oftentimes you'll end up screaming, "you can do that???" and that's when you'll start to break rules in your own self-confident assertive way
this is mostly why I like reading foreign novels and outside of whatever genre I'm working on. (e.g. if I'm doing fantasy, I do not read anything fantasy. I'm probably reading detective, romance, contemporary, etc)

It's funny cuz since I've been making digital art, I unconsciously have been paying a more critical attention to other artworks. Since I noticed that I have tried to read books trying to see how the author wrote the things they wrote, but I don't have too many books and I ended up distracted and forgetting to do that mid reading :)
that's something to work on

in reply to @ninecoffees's post:

Damn,
First of all thanks for all the advices (including @amaranth-witch)!! is way more than I expected and could ask for. Also sorry for the late response, I got the flu because my asshole professor didn't wear a fucking mask even though he knew he was sick ahahahaha, anyway-

I can only say that I'm not a narrative writer. All I do in my spare time is some dumb novels and blogposts solely written for me. Game and script narrative is a fully dedicated profession with a very different approach, not just in the writing and construction, but also in the ways it is edited. I cannot comment on this. It is far beyond my scope and ability.

To be honest, I asked exactly to you 🫵 because THE GOOD WEAPON made me think that you already had experience in the field.

I would try to respond to each paragraph alone, but I think it would be repetitive and unproductive. But please don't interpret that as me not considering them!

Based on everything you said, what I think I'm gonna do is sketch some abstract ideas, story points and random stuff in general to have a north of what to do. Then, since I'm way past the point of making a prototype, impose myself the goal of finishing a demo before working on stuff not essencial for the demo. That includes taking some of that sketches and refine them to test the waters.

Obviously I don't believe that that would be experience enough to develop my own process or style, but besides that I'll try to work on smaller side projects to practice and experiment. I'm pretty concious that my game will probably take at least 2 or 3 years to be finished and I hope I can get experience by working on game jams and etc.

"But doesn't that reinforces the burden and perfeccionism of wanting to create a masterpiece-" well, yeah. I've been stubborn and overly-ambitious and perfeccionist since ever and those are flaws I'm very much concious about (I often joke with friends that ambition will be my downfall. Sometimes it's not so much of a joke). Although these flaws aren't exactly flaws in some very specific occasions, I'll try not to take it too seriously and think of it more like "something that I can work on when I have nothing else to do".

I think that's all :D Thanks again for the advices!!