nora

@nora

nora reed

they them ze hir etc
nora.zone/

hello i am nora reed

you may know me from all the bots i have made. they live on nora.zone now. i also run an abortion resources page at abortion.cafe and have a jewelry store at nora.jewelry.

bluesky

bsky.app/profile/nora.zone

mastodon

mastodon.social/@NoraReed

nora @nora8/4/2023, 2:47 AM

Talen Lee @TalenLee

Talen Lee @TalenLee8/4/2023, 2:26 AM

my favourite bad tables in tabletop

Sorry the description is beyond me.

The first is a table excerpt from the D20 Modern book Ultramodern Firearms and it is cutting off one column where things actually differ: the license and price for each type of gun. This is every type of shotgun that extensively detailed book presented.

The second is handguns. Handguns can vary between 2d4 and 2d6. Note that in this system, to force a massive damage save (the way they make guns more lethal), you have to do 10 or more damage, which means every single one of the 2d4 guns cannot lethally shoot someone unless you critically hit, 5% of the time. So all the 2d4 guns are, functionally, 'bad guns.' This isn't a mark against the table, just a mark against the system for reference:

The majority of the handgun information is handguns that are not worth using for the game system's sake.

A Jeb With No Name @namelessWrench8/4/2023, 2:30 AM

OH BOY

Are we talking tables? HAVE SOME MIDDLE EARTH ROLEPLAYING, COHOST

You must log in to comment.

in reply to @TalenLee's post:

Binary @binary8/4/2023, 2:28 AM

Honestly this is my problem with like...90% of old RPG tables. 50 entries and 10 of them matter.

The Fru Fru Brigade~@Fru-Fru-Brigade8/4/2023, 3:57 AM

Ultramodern Firearms is third-party and actually misses the entire point of how gun stats were handled in first-party books for d20 Modern. All guns have damage in roughly the same ballpark so that more guns could be valid picks and other differences between them would become important considerations, instead of just going for the most damaging one.

It did not have table after table of identical guns, and actively tried (whether successful or not) to not just have "objectively better" choices. In fact, the corebook, as I recall, had a single entry for each broad category of firearms. This doesn't even try to accomplish anything like having factors other than damage matter or not have some guns be just better. (To be fair, d20 Modern does have serious flaws, just... picking a third-party book that actively rejects the entire ethos of how the game handles guns, and then blaming its failings on the system feels... off.

Talen Lee @TalenLee8/4/2023, 4:19 AM

Here's the d20 modern SRD, which is the text of the core rulebook: http://www.spellbooksoftware.com/d20mrsd/weapons.html

I'm afraid your memory is a bit more optimistic about this game than it bears out.

The Fru Fru Brigade~@Fru-Fru-Brigade8/4/2023, 3:49 PM

Huh. I'd have to locate and pull out my copy of core (or have one fall off the back of a digital truck) to compare for sure. It does seem different than I recall in multiple ways. but it could be down to memory. That said it's... also not what you suggest. There are distinctions between weapons -- the 2d4 pistols are much rarer compared to the third party book, and do have other things going for them, like reduced size or automatic fire. Shotguns vary in range, number of rounds, magazine type, and damage rather than all being identical.

It's not perfect by any stretch, but it is better than the absolute mess from that third-party book, where most handguns are 2d4 without any other compelling factors, (many of them have objectively better counterparts with all of the same features) and literally every shotgun is the same in all shown stats.

Talen Lee @TalenLee8/4/2023, 4:02 PM

I think you're arguing with a position I didn't take, but it's nice to know there's a fan of D20 modern out there! ♥

The Fru Fru Brigade~@Fru-Fru-Brigade8/4/2023, 4:47 PM

It felt, when you said it was an issue of the system, like you were presenting a third-party book that did some frankly weird stuff as representative of the game as a whole. Wiggles. I may have misunderstood your intent.

EDIT: I think the game has serious issues and not remotely a fan of D20 in general, anymore, but I also think it did some very fun and interesting stuff. The monster supplement had a whole lot of interesting takes on cryptids and conspiracy theories and urban legends, for instance.

Talen Lee @TalenLee8/4/2023, 4:50 PM

In this system, to trigger massive damage, you need to do 10 or more damage, and the 2d4 guns presented here, can't do that.

Is that a little clearer?

The Fru Fru Brigade~@Fru-Fru-Brigade8/4/2023, 5:00 PM

Yeah, sorry. Offers cookies, frogs, and headpats.

Talen Lee @TalenLee8/4/2023, 5:03 PM

Hey, no problem! I don't want you to feel bad or nothin'! ♥

peng @RockhopperGames8/4/2023, 4:49 AM

talen that first table is excellent comedy XD

in reply to @namelessWrench's post:

cosmicspear @cosmicspear8/4/2023, 2:33 AM

Are the MERP critical hit tables as gloriously unhinged as the regular Rolemaster ones?

A Jeb With No Name @namelessWrench8/4/2023, 2:34 AM

Oh yes, yes they are. It's a beautiful mess.

The Fru Fru Brigade~@Fru-Fru-Brigade8/4/2023, 3:58 AM

Like your response better because it isn't a random third-party book that throws the entire game's ethos for handling such things out the window with a post that treats it as though this is just how the game normally is. (Also, your table is a lot funnier while needing less explanation)