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onebug @numberonebug10/29/2023, 2:34 AM

colin @vogon

colin @vogon10/29/2023, 1:57 AM

found out after much grief that cities skylines II doesn't generate substantial middle/high density housing demand until you build a college

https://steamcommunity.com/app/949230/discussions/0/3877095833475989271/

it feels like as the genre of city builders gets more and more elaborate, we get more and more blatant demonstrations that the people who do the systems development of city builders don't really understand much of anything

colin @vogon10/29/2023, 2:31 AM

also -- this is a smaller-scale gripe -- it does the same thing with office demand

it generates about 10 plots of office space demand and then never any more

admittedly most outlying towns I've been around do only have about 10 plots of office space
but cities skylines II forces you to zone all of them such that it is impossible for you to end up with a small-town law firm in what everyone can tell used to be a pizza hut because it still has the hat roof and technically there's nothing legally wrong with running a law firm out of a building designed to be a pizza restaurant

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in reply to @vogon's post:

Bruno Dias @bruno10/29/2023, 1:59 AM

lmao they literally implemented "going to college makes you a bycicle lib"

colin @vogon10/29/2023, 2:01 AM

it's so fucking funny, going into this I noticed the different density housing demand bars and was like "ah! cool! that's gonna be more interesting than just having one residential demand bar" but it turns out all the thought they put into it is "rich, sophisticated people live in dense cities and everyone else lives in eternal single-family sprawl"

colin @vogon10/29/2023, 2:06 AM

other fun oversights in the housing model include the fact that low-rent housing (which the in-game tooltips directly say is subsidized by the state!) can still become condemned for lack of demand or because people's rent is too high

onebug @numberonebug10/29/2023, 3:08 AM

In fact it seems to constantly be condemned even if there is demand unless you put it right next to the landfill or something, like one goes down a month due to high rent if the neighborhood is at all nice. its maddening

colin @vogon10/29/2023, 3:11 AM

oh my god that's so funny that it's literally just market rent, they just call it "low-rent housing" because the building is denser than a 5 over 1

onebug @numberonebug10/29/2023, 3:22 AM

yeah the assets are very similar to the housing projects my city did in the 80's, they look the part for sure, and I guess the rent is lower or something? but it does still fluctuates with the market 🤦

I ended up just putting them between an overpass and the elevated rail which fixed the issue since nobody wants that land, and hey now it looks realistically bleak. I guess it is realistic for improvements to a neighborhood resulting in developers bulldozing cheap housing, that is playing out rn like ten blocks from where I live lol

iliana @iliana10/29/2023, 2:06 AM

i think it’s slightly less “the developers don’t understand how cities work and get built” and more “if the game were truly realistic it would be a lot less fun/engaging for most people”

colin @vogon10/29/2023, 2:09 AM

for what it's worth there's like a dozen of these threads from people complaining that they're tired of building single-family sprawl because the game generates infinite demand for it and nothing for anything else, I don't think this bug makes the game any more fun either

Dan @scatsmanul10/29/2023, 2:08 AM

Is the only thing that's improved over the last 30 years of these games the traffic modeling?

@damon10/29/2023, 2:17 AM

I was very excited for it but after seeing its launch state I reckon I'll give it six months before really diving in. They seem to be aware of most of these big issues, though, which is... encouraging?

in reply to @vogon's post:

Gay Eminem on 9/11 @DecayWTF10/29/2023, 2:36 AM

Baked-in ideology. They're getting closer and closer to simulators and... well, they're simulating failed ideology

colin @vogon10/29/2023, 2:39 AM

yep! I said in the group chat, "the target audience for this game seems to be solely people who read blog posts entitled 'wow! someone made an entire scale model of san francisco in cities skylines II'"

Gay Eminem on 9/11 @DecayWTF10/29/2023, 2:40 AM

lmao

Echo Cian @EchoCian10/29/2023, 2:54 AM

I was looking forward to this game but between the bad performance and rampant bugs, it's very disappointing.

Maybe by the time I can upgrade my PC to run it sometime next year they'll have fixed it but I'm getting so tired of games being released in a terrible state. Has NOBODY learned from the other disastrous launches and bad press? Does bad press and player disappointment even mean anything? (no.)

@goodatsports10/29/2023, 2:57 AM

not sure what is exposed to modding tools, but is this behavior something that could be tweaked by workshop mods?

colin @vogon10/29/2023, 2:59 AM

possibly! I certainly hope so, I might be tempted enough to fix it myself that I'll actually go looking into what has historically been possible

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