pendell

Current Hyperfixation: Wizard of Oz

  • He/Him

I use outdated technology just for fun, listen to crappy music, and watch a lot of horror movies. Expect posts about These Things. I talk a lot.

Check tags like Star Trek Archive and Media Piracy to find things I share for others.



cathoderaydude
@cathoderaydude

strange new worlds was a bust, but i've been curious for too long to not try st: discovery. watching the first episode, i am really impressed at how it has all the same problems

spoilers, natch.


pendell
@pendell

I've been going through Star Trek TOS and when any character does anything against captain's orders, it's the most dramatic shit, always a major plot point if not the core of the plot itself. These ships' continued operation depends on everyone aboard following the chain of command, if it falls apart, the ship could fall apart, literally, people could die, everyone could die. The safety and lives of hundreds of people depend on your decision, whether you follow order or disobey them.

It's a serious, intense question for any of the characters to consider: to obey, when you think the order is wrong or dangerous, could lead to death, but you would not be to blame. To disobey, you might be correct, but if you aren't, if, say, you didn't have all the information you thought you did, and people die because of your disobeyal, you are singularly responsible. You'd immediately be relieved of duty, arrested, your life ruined, and you'd have to live with the guilt of your mistake. It is not something to be taken lightly, and nobody ever does.

And then Discovery out here like "disregard the Captain's orders cuz I don't like their face."

I just watched the TOS episode "The Doomsday Machine" (S2:E6) and it's a great example of this, how serious the line of command is to ensuring the safety of the crew, and how no character takes changes of command or disobeying orders lightly. Modern Star Trek could never have characters consider their actions this seriously, they'd have Spock immediately nerve pinch Commodore Decker with triumphant music so we can have the audience cheer and clap and tweet about it, because that's all that matters.


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in reply to @cathoderaydude's post:

we watched star trek: the motion picture recently and loved it, partially due to the fact that it’s a very slow paced movie that doesn’t have a constantly-shaking camera. there’s a scene that’s establishing the scale of the enterprise from the outside for several minutes, and later in the movie it’s compared to another colossal ship that absolutely dwarfs it

anyway establishing the scale of the main ship is important because almost everything else is gonna be directly compared to it, it’s usually the only stable reference point. if you don’t then you’re gonna have trouble conveying what’s physically happening out in space

While I did enjoy SNW, I quite understand your frustrations with Discovery. I think overall the series still has its high points, but also really struggles with not being able to relax. It just tries to stuff so much plot in at the same time, that it doesn't let anything have a chance to breathe or settle.

in reply to @pendell's post:

The problem is that our culture has become completely blackpilled. 30 years ago you could sell a show about a bunch of basically-conventional navy officers going out and having adventures on behalf of their government, but if you'll forgive me for putting it like this: people now think discipline is for f***ots.

That's what it seems like to me; that all television, and therefore presumably most basic-normal-person culture, regards the idea that a person might have faith in something - god, country, humanity, let alone some laughable abstraction like the chain of command - with the deepest eyerolling incredulity. The theme of TV is "every man for himself."

Of course the first officer just blatantly shouts down the captain in front of the crew, instead of taking the conversation to her ready room - because TV characters are all deeply fatalistic. They all believe that life is not worth living, or even if it is, that they won't be living it for long, so what's the point in not just blurting out what you're thinking, in bothering to maintain any sense of decorum? They do not have a "normal." Everything in their life has been bad for as long as they can remember, and every day is the worst day of their life. They assume they're fucked no matter what, and they're constantly at their breaking point.

Sound like anyone you know? Maybe, all of us?

As our culture falls apart, the great experiment slowly comes to its inevitable conclusion: failure. And everyone is acutely aware of it, as it's happening. We've seen over the last 20 years, if not the last 50, that we are not going to be saved by governments or systems, because they are all corrupt, and the corruption runs to the bone. Even the seemingly gentlest institutions are, at best, incompetent and toothless.

Even at their worst, at the nadir of DS9's misanthropy, most of Earth government, most of Starfleet, most of the Federation, was basically trying their best to create or protect utopia. Roddenberry's template was for a future where the government could be trusted. Late TNG and DS9 (and god forbid, Insurrection) rejected that - but even in doing so, they more or less reinforced the idea that in the end, decency usually triumphed.

The modern consumer does not accept this. They believe that in the end, the bad people always win, because that's what's been happening in reality for decades. They believe that society has completely broken down, that everyone is out to achieve short-term gain because there won't be a long term, and that matches reality as well. Professional behavior, discipline, only make sense when you're trying to build a life for yourself. For whom does that work anymore? What do we ever spend our time on now that doesn't disintegrate under our feet due to infighting or just plain malfeasance?

I think that if you showed ST:TNG to most people, they would simply laugh at it. The idea that a first officer would rise to their position by being good at their job, then assume their commanding officer did the same and follow his lead, is simply unbelievable.