• they/them

plural system in Seattle, WA (b. 1974)
lots of fictives from lots of media, some horses, some dragons, I dunno. the Pnictogen Wing is poorly mapped.

host: Mx. Kris Dreemurr (they/them)

chief messenger and usual front: Mx. Chara or Χαρά (they/them)

other members:
Mx. Frisk, historian (they/them)
Monophylos Fortikos, unicorn (he/him)
Kel the Purple, smol derg (xe/xem)
Pim the Dragon, Kel's sister (she/her)


Quelklef
@Quelklef

whats up with the obsession with time?


Quelklef
@Quelklef

disclaimer: this is not a developed opinion; i'm just expressing a brainbug

we organize fuckin everything around time. this makes sense when we use time as a coordinator for inter-personal things, because time is Truly Objective (at slow enough speeds)

but its very common to organize oneself with time too. "today i will work on X for K hours" huh??? why hours? what relevance does hours have to anything?

  • "because after K hours i will be tired/bored". then why not just ... work until you're tired/bored? plus, maybe after K hours you want to continue. "then i will continue" wait so then time wasn't really the relevant thing to start with

  • "because i want to fit all of X, Y, Z in my day" wouldn't it make more sense to divy up your energy, then, instead of your time? split it approximately three-way and then when you're tired go to bed? also, if you go by time you risk being exhausted by the time you reach Z

  • "by working for K hours on X every week i ensure progress" but progress is not a function of time. you can work 100 hours on something and make as much progress as having worked 1 hour from a different perspective. we're optimizing for the wrong thing here. if progress is what we care about, shouldn't we set a goal and reach towards it in increments of energy spent, instead of time? that's what actually is relevant

my hypothesis is that since time is the Great Coordinator it got used for business and then we just all ended up using it for everything else. (i have no idea if this is actually true tho)

it bothers me because i feel like focusing on time somehow, like, acts as a constant psychological tug away from whatever you're doing. hard to be in the moment if you keep looking at the clock. (conversely, the present is timeless)

and what's kinda scary, further, is tha ti cant even imagine trying to live without time


arbe
@arbe

...I started writing, and then it was an hour later, and then I started formatting, and now it's 2 hours later, and I'm damn well gonna post it or I won't have anything to show for procrastinating on the task I was supposed to have gotten started on hours ago.

Also, this was originally a comment, but I decided my meanderings are difficult enough to read without being squeezed into a narrow div with less contrast.


invis
@invis
This page's posts are visible only to users who are logged in.

rotsharp
@rotsharp

just like cars and other motor vehicles should rightfully be considered specialist tools instead of something we demand everyone use in order to access society, the average person should never be required to consider time in their daily life.


pnictogen-wing
@pnictogen-wing

Western society still copies (in various direct and indirect ways) the rigid bureaucratic methods of Roman imperial rule, and that included enforcement of a standard calendar and timekeeping method that was undoubtedly used for the periodic collection of money—the Roman plutocrats loved regular interest payments as much as any capitalist.

I do feel it all comes down to how much money can be made by enforcing timetables. it's also a handy method of punishment: tardiness is treated like it's a sin in Western culture.

~Chara


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in reply to @Quelklef's post:

and what's kinda scary, further, is tha ti cant even imagine trying to live without time

i think that without clocks, you would end up organizing your day in various ways anyway: morning, midday, evening, night, and then as you do activities regularly, you'd gain a sense of how long things take "in general", and then when you start the task and the sun is low in the sky, you would say to yourself, "well, i think i can finish this before the sun has fully set". And then during the day, you'd say "I can do this task N times before the sun goes down", and that task acts as a period of some kind.

We don't have a good way to measure other sensations, like "how hungry am i?" but we do a pretty good job of getting a rough sense and working on that basis. Am I hungry enough for a snack? a sandwich? If all we ate were meal bars, they would act as a quantifier: "i am hungry enough for 1.5 meal bars". The size of the meal bar doesn't actually matter, just that the size is consistent so you get used to it and can make predictions.

Feels the same as any unit of time we create.

At least, this seems right to me.

I don't know, I'm not sure I personally would naturally organize around the sunlight cycle, since even with clocks all over the place I currently don't really naturally organize myself around time. (This could very well be a me thing, though)

but even if you're right that time is natural, the scenario you describe feels different to me from our current relationship with time. A rough split of the day into morning/midday/evening/night feels pretty distinct than minute- and hour-based scheduling (which is fairly dissociated from the daylight cycle)

"Feels the same as any unit of time we create." -- i guess what im getting at is that with a morn/day/eve/night relationship time would feel to me like "just another factor", but with minutes and hours time seems to take on a much more prominent role

i guess what im getting at is that with a morn/day/eve/night relationship time would feel to me like "just another factor", but with minutes and hours time seems to take on a much more prominent role

yeah, I think that's very true

in reply to @invis's post:

in reply to @rotsharp's post:

when youre Big Disabled and you have only a few precious hours in a day, it fucking sucks to be struggling all week to Get To Something and now it is too late in the day to go to the pharmacy or the store is closed for the weekend or whatever

OH MY GOD YES I was bed ridden for almost 4 days in a row with maybe an hour of waking energy and it SUCKED that it seemed like all the things I wanted to do were inhibited by the concept of time.

I tend to be nocturnal, so when I'm not working, my sleep schedule shifts to going tk bed in the morning, which means I can't get anything done when I'm awake >.<

And then when I am working (and forced to be awake when the sun is up 🤢), I have to spend all my time in a silly little building making silly little meals. I have the time to do things on the weekend, but no longer have the energy >.<

I need to pick up cat food today, but will I be able to? Idk, but these bois gotta eat

in reply to @pnictogen-wing's post:

the thought killing edge on the tip of liberal historicism. i get tired when people talk about fascism entering the equation, especially in the us, as if it werent built from the roman image.

neoliberal society has a polite, sanitized consensus of history and current events in service of making evil limited to the official enemies of the day and i am sick of being aware of it tbh

agreed. we're never more than a step or two removed, even in "liberal" Western societies, from the outright mythologization of the past in fascist style. the continuing lesson in such societies is always that history is over and done with, a settled matter, and ultimately we're not supposed to learn from history, we're only meant to admire it