punalippulaiva

ILV-83

@punalippulaiva

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Kun ihmiskunta lopulta lakkaa olemasta, 200 vuoden jälkeen ilmakuvasta ei voi nähdä sen edes koskaan olleen olemassa. Tämä on lohdullista.

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punalippulaiva
@punalippulaiva
breastingboobily
@breastingboobily
breastingboobily
@breastingboobily

Sometimes I think fandom criticism of trek characters like Troi, Crusher, Kes, etc. are implicitly about the ways that the character is written but the criticism is expressed as something about the actress or her performance

like I also don't like the way the women characters are written a lot of the time (90s trek can't be normal about women) but if you look at the occasional episode where the actresses get a chance to actually shine I think it's clear that the issue is the writing and I wish people would talk about that more. This isn't something I've seen on cohost but it bothers me

breastingboobily
@breastingboobily

imo these are the best episodes of the characters I mentioned:

Best episode for Crusher: "Remember Me" 4.05

Best episode for Troi: tie between "Face of the Enemy" 6.14 and "Dark Page" 7.07

Best episode for Kes: "Before and After" 3.21

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in reply to @breastingboobily's post:

breastingboobily
@breastingboobily

I totally agree. Feels like a lot of the times folks' criticism of Voyager and Janeway specifically boils down to critiques that you could make about any 90s trek show but for some reason (misogyny) Janeway receives a disproportionate amount of criticism when her strongest episodes easily outshine Picard's (I'm thinking specifically about "Counterpoint" in season 5 where she outsmarts space fascists. Picard could never). Like I'm still making my way through ds9 but at this point Mulgrew is one of my favorite performers in the entire franchise

also now that I'm thinking about it I feel like there was even an episode of Voyager where they tried to address Janeway's inconsistent writing within the canon but the details are a little fuzzy

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ertchin
@ertchin

I vaguely recall that "Shattered" (a time travel episode where different parts of the ship were shifting to different time periods) dealt with that a bit.

It's funny, because some of my favorite Janeway episodes are where she's acting differently but there's a good reason. Like "Scientific Method", with the invisible aliens doing experiments on the crew--they elevate Janeway's stress really high, which was NOT a good decision.

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jcolag
@jcolag

Oh, definitely. And I think that a lot of that has to do with the direction. Especially for Troi, I remember seeing an interview where someone mentioned that during editing, they'd often cut to Marina Sirtis, because...she looks like she's listening. And that sort of focused things for me, where they're handing her crappy scripts and shoehorning her into episodes where she has no value other than "there," it makes her look far worse than she probably is.

Not that fans in general haven't also been terrible at least since the cartoon launched...

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in reply to @breastingboobily's post:

ocpdzim
@ocpdzim

Honestly I think this is clear even in their worst episodes, for the most part - I can't think of a single episode where Gates McFadden or Jennifer Lien give a bad performance, even when faced with a truly atrocious script, and IMO there's only one episode where Marina Sirtis gives a bad performance ("Night Terrors," but that's also completely understandable and not really a reflection of her skills - they had her filming scenes in that floating harness when she's terrified of heights! Of course it wasn't her best performance!). People seem to understand this about the men in the shows, who also have some pretty awful scripts on occasion but don't face criticism as actors over it. You don't get to play a main character on a show with 7 seasons if your acting sucks 🙄

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breastingboobily
@breastingboobily

I agree! Another example I can think of is "Sub Rosa" in season 7 of TNG (the infamous Scottish candle ghost episode). The romance doesn't really work at all imo and it's very clear that the Fabio knockoff they cast is up to no good but Gates McFadden's monologue at the climax feels really emotionally resonant to me. I love the Star Trek actresses !

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