queer-as-folk-punk

Eternally listening to midwest emo

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Queer Adult | POC | Anarchist | Gay Vampire |
They call me a "writer", I guess. Sure.
Multi-Fandom Enjoyer. I have succumbed to the 'tism.
Live fast, die young, punch fascists.
If you see me posting at 2AM when I should be asleep, no you didn't.


thewaether
@thewaether

I think both these takes are basic, because both takes miss what I always notice, which is that when characters die on a lot of movies and shows, they are not greived. and that's unrealistic

for example. I remember playing danganronpa and it was probably my main issue with that game. characters die- that's not a problem. often, characters who don't deserve it die- also not a problem.

....but why I hated it? when a character dies, they seemed to just be gone from everyone's memory. they are not greived. in chapter 1 the protagonist's girlfriend dies as the victim of the first case. in the next chapter he just kind of forgets about her and is only worried about losing his own life. I have no idea if this continues throughout the entire game, but it was jarring enough that I eventually stopped playing. The game seemed to depict the aftermath of death in a very unrealistic way.

counterexample: in Gurren Lagann, Kamina, a character who is practically designed to be a popular badass, dies in like episode 3. however, Simon's greiving for Kamina goes on to define Simon's character, as he gradually tries to live up to the expectations of his dead, badass friend

I think this is something no-one talks about in discourse about "characters dying". do they die realistically? Are they killed off and forgotten, or does their death, like real death, have a knock-on effect to other people?


BiscuitAWitch
@BiscuitAWitch
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mathsbian
@mathsbian

Twin Peaks was actually conceived as a response to murder mystery and cop shows not showing grief over the deaths that happened. Murder She Wrote and other shows of the time were Mystery of the Week shows, where a whole set of new characters would be introduced, one would get murdered, and the detective main character would solve the mystery. There was never any lingering on how the murder affected the other characters, you barely even knew these characters in the first place so seeing them in grief wouldn’t exactly have the same impact. Twin Peaks opens with the discovery of Laura’s body and then begins introducing characters. Some of the characters almost immediately learn of Laura’s death and begin to grieve. Others take a little bit to learn the news, and we get more of a taste of what they’re like outside of grief and fear. But even the characters that almost immediately begin grieving, we’re still shown a quick scene of them behaving normally. Her friends who find out in class are smiling at each other and chatting with their classmates before the teacher announces that Laura Palmer has been found dead. It contrasts so well with their powerful, immediate grief. The closer people are to Laura, the less we got to know them outside of their grief, adding to the sense that the grief will irrevocably change them. They did a great job living up to the idea they originally had of showing grief and the effect of death on television.
David Lynch apparently has a real problem with the weight of fictional events not being given their due time in a story. He doesn’t think violence on TV is a problem in and of itself, but that the way TV treats violence and death is a problem. And he managed to really nail it on the head when creating Twin Peaks.
Long YouTube video I watched that covered these ideas


BiscuitAWitch
@BiscuitAWitch
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in reply to @thewaether's post:

Realizing some stuff about Jojo with this that I really don't like and don't want to think, unless putting the image of the dead character in the sky counts as grieving. But I firmly think this absolutely don't applies with the major final dead of Part 7.

And there's One Piece with two major character deaths in the whole 1100+ manga. Complaints about people not dying enough in OP are fine and such tough, but these two holy beautiful men are still remembered and appreciate tons of chapters later, with flashbacks and characters that talks about them, they're never forget. That's great, and also fits with the themes of generational will of One Piece.

Also, I never see Sayaka as the MC girlfriend, but more like "obviously in love but don't want to admit", props to you to call her his girlfriend haha

(spoilers)
I wouldn't say that's a Jojo flaw exactly, but more a trait of it's narrative. Phantom Blood wouldn't be the same without that ending, for example. And characters like Kakyoin, Kira 8 or FF wouldn't be the same without them dying.

Sounds bad but there's a charm of seeing a beloved character fighting, pass the page, and now is dead. Not a nameless soldier in a war story or something, a character with unique design and personality, and one you know it's past and such. But that they feel like they're forgotten the moment they die is something true, what I feel with the post. There are moments of grieving but these are so short that doesn't feel like such, even if is because they're in middle of a fight. More scenes like Jotaro burning Dio's body while remembering their fallen friends would be great, or Jhonny literally carryn Gyro's body to his natal country to bury him there.