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vectorpoem
@vectorpoem

ok this makes me feel old and snobby as heck but i lowkey resent the incursion of "lore" into games as this particular way of referring to certain narrative elements. as far as i can tell this is a games-specific usage, emerging into mainstream gamer lingo around 10-15 years ago, to designate things like the books in oblivion & skyrim - narrative material that's more or less totally unrelated to anything the player does, just there to flesh out the game's pathologically overembroidered fictional world.

one thing i dislike about this sense of "lore" is that it artificially separates backstory/exposition from plot, ie the stuff that is happening to and around the player in the story's present. as a deliberately chosen narrative pattern (ie by people who are new enough to the medium and grew up loving it that they think lore is something that makes games better, just by existing, the more the better maybe even), lore's obsessive detail demands attention, insists on its own importance, but contributes to nothing but itself.

lore also portrays narrative as just another form of "content": narrative as data, dry and dissectable and pinned to a card with its genus species typewritten beneath; narrative as wallpaper; narrative as platform-food (the fandom dot com wiki SEO empire, it hungers); narrative as anything other than unique untameable intersections of storytelling, play, thematics, aesthetics, etc.

i tried websearching for the history of this usage but search engines are so broken now, and it's a tough concept to search for anyway (most engines think you want to read all about lore for this or that specific game) so i can't really trace it as a gamer-anthropological concept, but i would love to sketch this beast's face in sharper detail that i may conduct a ritual public slaying.

to counter in the affirmative, then: game narrative is a process, both as we author it as creators and as we experience it as players. backstory is archeology and forensics and the epistolary novel, but none of these render it dead or an artifact of pure data. every story deserves to be treated as something that is really happening, because in the interactive medium it is actually happening, to a human player. i think this language mostly devalues everything around it. let's just speak of stories and the different ways we tell them.


ring
@ring

I don't feel any particular way about the word when it's used as a catchall term for "stuff seeded throughout a massive setting that we can tie back into and build off of, which may not be relevant now or ever but it's There." But as often as I hear it used that way, it still gets my hackles up when used in certain contexts, and especially when it's used to describe things in the game setting as though they're real.

This is distinct from treating the story as though it's really happening, because we participate in things that are happening to us and by their nature they can't be isolated to our perspective or controlled. A thing that just exists can be pared down to a limited perspective. I can believe my coffee cup is an ancient artifact and you can't stop me. You can say these old things over here are ancient artifacts and I can decide they're fake. Write down all the information about them--no opinions, just pure facts!--and I bet I can find plenty of evidence to support my position. So what if you can do that too? You're deciding what you want to believe, just like me.

When players talk about lore and debate the accuracy of this or that factoid, they're sometimes expecting games to treat them as the ultimate arbiters of what story means without imposing any external perspective. Like "immersion," it easily becomes a demand to never remind players that games are creative projects made by real people with preferences and personalities, and that sometimes those people even Have Agendas (creative vision and a desire to communicate something specific through their work).

In this mindset the story should not feel like a story. It should feel as though the setting is a fully-formed world, and if narrative designers and game writers are doing our jobs correctly we should--at most!--be peering into it through a portal on the wall and carefully, accurately recording our observations. No opinions! Just pure facts! It is very unprofessional to break kayfabe and admit that we made this shit up out of our own heads for purposes that may not be limited to providing the audience with an experience as close to a bespoke standing ovation as possible.

This is how you get players confidently claiming that writers on a video game series Don't Know Their Own Lore and should just let community loremasters (people who remember a lot of facts) write the story when there's a minor discrepancy or a change they don't agree with. It's also why marginalized writers joining a game project are often immediately scapegoated for any story decision players don't like; naturally they have an agenda, and they're ruining the lore like an evil wizard warping reality in their own image. The real writers--the ones who know their only job is to serve the player Content--obviously figure out how the story should go by opening up the big leather-bound book in the studio basement that contains everything that has ever happened or will happen in the game world, and then cross-referencing it all until they've extrapolated what really happened. If it doesn't ring true, they must have gotten it wrong.

Some people just don't know how it actually works; I've had to explain to well-meaning players that I can't just go and ask the narrative team the answer to a random question because the answer doesn't exist and they'll have to make it up, a process that usually involves group review sessions. Those people get it, and what they're typically asking is not "get me this information," but "tell me a story." Some writers are very good at immediately coming up with something compelling and spinning it out on the fly, but that's its own skillset, and most people working on large collaborative projects don't happen to live at the crossroads of being good at off-the-cuff storytelling and not getting in trouble for making shit up to tell players on the spot.

There are other people who just genuinely like finding things out and noting them down, even if the information isn't relevant to a game's story otherwise. They're mostly fine, although they sometimes get frustrated when writers prioritize storytelling over lore accuracy.

But the player who really, really loves narrative as pure data--who wants "lore" to be the objective random trivia of a setting and nothing else--is not making an innocent assumption about the writing process or interested in having an origin and backstory for everything from nettles on up. They believe they've made a bargain when they purchase a game: Okay, I know it's not realistic for you to have tailored this experience to my exact tastes. But it had better not be not for me, either.

It's unsurprisingly similar to the bargain some reactionaries apparently think they've made with real life--it's fine if facts don't explicitly validate their worldview, but they had better not contradict it. They had better not validate people who don't agree with them. Raw facts they can work with; they can build their own story on top of it. They will smugly sit for hours and argue only that it's absurd to believe meaning can be more or less accurately derived from inconclusive data, even if it means sacrificing their own deeply-held position.

As players, they haven't paid money to be a virtual isekai protagonist just for some jackoff cog in the development machine to try to push themes and emotions and ideas on them; if everyone's interpretation of the relative importance of things in a setting is equally valid, and all anyone has to agree on are the plain facts, the story's not not for them. And since they typically believe every game developer's job is to provide seamless escapism, lore that contributes nothing is everything they want.


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in reply to @vectorpoem's post:

I think the one place I don't like lore is Destiny, because it's sorta absent of anything happening in the game itself, and that's largely due to the design of being an MMO shooter.

On the flip side, I really like the lore of Dishonored but mainly to explain all the weird shit around you. I think the stuff with the whale oil powering everything was neat, but I have to wonder how that happened. Did design come up with a "explody thing can turn things on and off, or you can blow it up, and it glows in the dark" first and then narrative was like "oh yeah we'll make this the central source of power, and you get it from whales, because we have a bunch of whaling ships in the concept art" or did concept art have something that they just ran with? Either way I found that bit real interesting.

Destiny would've been better off putting all the text they're expecting people to read in a book and selling that as supplemental material. I'm sure the writers have done a great job but it's so badly presented that I doubt many people ever read much of it

I find the game Wildermyth to have a good version of delivering this kind of worldly detail without relegating it to optional pieces that seem to be specifically for fleshing out a wiki.

There, the game has narrative beats that depend on the character composition of your party, the choices you've made in the past, and the current state of the world. In a large part, the "lore" that you interact with as a player may wind up pretty different from other players' sessions. The only carry-over is in that the mechanics (of magic, of combat, of personality variations) are the same across all sessions.

In watching my friend /iios stream through Morrowind and read every single book that she can find, with the expressed goal of reading them all, there have been several questions raised about who was hired to write these books? Who fact checked them? When were they written relative to the construction of the land and in-game cities and features and whatnot?

To create this vast corpus of world knowledge that was published as part of the game in a time before Wikipedia is such a wild and strange choice in my opinion. I wonder why it was done at all?

there are people in the duke nukem community that thinks that Duke Lore should be newly written and backported to dnf 01 and so far they've been successfully talked down but the idea of it seems so antithetical to the entire shooter scene of the early '00's. like trying to tie all the games prior to DNF together into a neat little timeline. i get the urge, i've wiled away days reading fallout wiki's (before fandom shit all over it) but yeah, we really need to move past the Loreification/Wikification of storytelling in games because it's exhausting and needless. Doom dosen't need Proper Noun sci-fi archetypes to be doom, for fuck sakes!

Good post.

I've been playing Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 for the first time recently, and this post made me think about how - in those games - all the random books on bookshelves are referring to things that already existed in the tabletop game and broadly were relevant to other stories in the Forgotten Realms, be that separate modules or novels or what have you. The games were in a pre-existing world, so the "lore" was stuff that the presumed audience of DnD players was expected to already know.

Whereas in something like Elder Scrolls or Pillars of Eternity or something, those documents are being seeded in an attempt to give depth to the new created setting, and sort of as a tradition because "well, Baldur's Gate had those". "Worldbuilding" in the persistent well-Tolkien-did-it-this-way-and-we-must-too sense, because that's just what the mainstream accepted form of the Fantasy genre is.

I think out of my combined 300ish hours in the Pillars series, I've probably actually sat and read maybe less than 10% of the in-game book lore entries because they didn't seem like they were that relevant to what was happening right now (though, looking at the list of them on the wiki as I type this, looks like most of them serve to flesh out things that do actually show up in the main game). Most of the ones I did read were in the expansion to Deadfire where you're explicitly going through the ancient library of information censored by the pantheon, which at least sort of ties into the series themes.

in everquest there were items marked Lore, you could only have one of them i believe (see useage of "unique" descriptor post-WoW)

a spell could reveal their background (a text blurb). I don't know if that's the origin, but it is where I saw it most before it broke into the mainstream.

but EverQuest hired fantasy novelists to not only write the background of the game, but also populate it's libraries, at least for the first 5 or so expansions. Same with EQ2. I'm willing to bet there's more books read by less than 5000 people in everquest, than there are total books in oblivion and skyrim. Certainly in terms of total wordcount.

one of the few games where gratuitous "lore" was in the world and in character of ingame authors instead of detached backstory

The rise of the "hero" game has made this 100x worse. Games like overwatch and league of legends literally prevent you, the player, from ever experiencing an actual plot event. Summoners rift, the lol map, doesn't even exist in the lore.

I totally agree with this and the only game off the top of my head that does "lore" right is Disco Elysium. As I understand it the world was already used as a TTRPG setting before the game was developed so it ends up feeling so much more fleshed out than the surface-level 'lore' that most games scatter around in books and journal notes. Plus it actually affects your understanding of the game world in a big way -- I made it through my whole playthrough without finding out what the Pale was, so I was pretty surprised when I looked it up afterward!

I think in a broad sense I agree with your analysis of "what Lore is" but I don't necessarily see it as a bad thing, which is obviously my kind of biased opinion as someone whose job became something akin to "lore guy" at a large studio kind of on accident.

a slight counterpoint (? addendum? comment?) on this that I can think of that will almost assuredly not change your opinion but will hopefully add something to this entire conversation (because I think about this a LOT) is how "lore" is effectively the thing that moves a game's narrative products from a "game's narrative" (defined extremely broadly as 'the information that is conveyed to the player through the process of playing a video game') into something more vague - you could call it an "IP" or a "Franchise" or whatever I guess.

To directly respond to one line from your post, this is, I think, the thing that Lore does that is more than "contributing to nothing but itself". It's scaffolding, imo, which is tricky to get right and often does come off as pointlessly convoluted and over-rich for a game (though I think that's more of an executional problem, but that's a different conversation).

Like, to take Elder Scrolls as an example: There is information in the game Morrowind contained in various Lore Books (ingame as interactive objects that spit chunks of text at you) that illuminates part of the world that you, the player, do not directly see. There are books about Cyrodiil and High Hrothgar or whatever, right. Those pieces of information sketch out a world "bigger than the game".

And more than just being "bigger than the game" (this is key, imo) this Lore says "these are the parts of this fictional world that are NOT changeable by you, the player". It is an arm of the greater databaseification of fandom (as you identify in your original post) but it's not just that - it's also a way to neatly separate "flexible lore" (the stuff that an individual player does in a game) from "stable lore" (backstories, ingame 'nonfiction' like audiologs or books, material untouched by the player directly).

And the whole project of this sort of Lore, imo, is to build out this 'greater world' for various other projects to fuck around in. if you know what is stable and what is flexible you know what makes sense to build on and what you have to either make stable (e.g. 'canonizing' a certain path of player actions in order to facilitate a sequel) or leave flexible (e.g. how other Elder Scrolls games refer to the actions of Morrowind as the "experientially open" Dragon Break).

The materialist developer side of me says that having this understanding of stable narrative vs flexible narrative makes it a lot easier to collaborate with multiple creatives on the same project/intertwined projects. this is, of course, the part that is way more common in the Giant IP Projects that are so popular rn (star wars, marvel, whatever - anything with 'universes' basically).

I think it's perfectly understandable and respectable to be turned off by this sort of hardline differentiation of 'narrative' in a playful sense vs 'narrative' as Rote Lore, but i find the whole project to be pretty fascinating especially as it sweeps through Popular Nerd Media at the moment. a lot of it i think is capitalist desire to create infinite #content for fans, a lot of it is making it easier to work in large IPs, a lot of it is just basic nerd desire for Intellectual Control over your favorite Properties. idk!! it's interesting.

Yes!! I did read the OP a little differently, as not really taking issue with this style of implementation but rather the idea that it's somehow distinct from storytelling and more like a random trivia loot drop (vectorpoem please correct me if I'm wrong). Saying "game with massive lore!" is like saying "40 hours of gameplay!" with no indication of what that gameplay is or why spending 40 hours on it is desirable.

That said, I've never worked with anyone who treats it that way, at least not on the narrative side; it's either been a deliberate effort to create that scaffolding (where the impact can actually be greater with a few sentences than in-depth exploration) or it's written by someone dead set on making sure you'll remember a description of a broken pickaxe five years after playing the game.

Those little bits of worldbuilding also often read like signatures to me. Most of us are not going to be driving entire collaborative projects with our individual storytelling instincts, and when budget is strictly allocated toward the big epic beats, sometimes text on an item description is the space available to give the world both that larger presence and life on a smaller scale. Those are then more likely to reflect what an individual person found poignant or insightful or creepy. And this is also where transformational fandom lore--the roleplayers, fanfic writers, artists, and meta-analysis people are the ones who will entertain themselves for years spinning those offbeat details into their own creative work.

So many people have these emotional inroads to big game worlds that have nothing to do with the main storyline, like minor NPCs or a faction that only shows up in one questline. That's where their hearts are even as they explore different environments and complete the main story path. Very few of those will ever get the spotlight, but it can mean almost as much to read something very small and realize someone writing the story was thinking deeply about it, too. I've seen players sharing screenshots of tooltip text I wrote, and I think this is one of my favorite forms of storytelling in a way because there's nothing quite like someone reading one line and then writing a Tumblr essay that lays out the exact emotions you were going for.

thanks for this incredibly thoughtful comment.

to be honest, i think i should've named this post "against calling certain parts of a game's story Lore", because i'm realizing that really all i'm against is that database-ification of fandom and all the weird ways it affects how people engage with narratives and worlds and creativity in general. all your points about the overlaps of player vs storyteller agency and large-scale collaborative storytelling are great, and i support those and don't think there's anything inherently harmful about them. (they certainly can be when they meet the exploitative industrial machinery of game production, and frequently are, but the creative dynamics i can still imagine existing even in a fully post-capitalist world.)

Yeah I think that's the part of it that's so fascinating to me too - what would this look like without capitalism in play? I imagine there would be still sprawling franchises with a certain amount of centralized control (the author function, so speak, that determines what is 'canon' within a certain lens) but I think we'd also have way more imaginative and less... stigmatized explorations of various franchises/stories. not sure exactly what that would look like obviously but i'm sure it'd be more interesting/less exploitative than what we got currently

very late response, but about the history of this, but the Lore:Main_Page article on the uesp.net wiki dates back to 2006.

https://en.uesp.net/w/index.php?title=Lore:Main_Page&dir=prev&action=history

i know the term was in use before that on the elder scrolls forums https://web.archive.org/web/20020322022529/http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php

this archive.org snapshot from 2002 mentions "General discussion of the Elder Scrolls universe including lore, legends, and history." for the generic Elder Scrolls subforum which is how i think this sort of got started there?

https://web.archive.org/web/20040814225957/http://www.elderscrolls.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=1892557&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1 this thread from 2003 is the "elder scrolls lore faq"