robinthebun

just another goofball

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love to write, think, draw, and play video games. icon by @pocketghosts


thewaether
@thewaether

I know there's voter apathy in the US but I am begging you do NOT let trump back in, do not even risk it. now that he's immune he will fuckin kill you

americans have this tendency to go "oh well, we deserve it" out of some weird combination of believing themselves to be priveliged simply for living in the US or some sense of white guilt where applicable but seriously you owe it to yourselves not to let trump back in. you don't deserve what he'd do to you, no matter how much you think you do


MrMandolino
@MrMandolino

hi, southern european country who lived through the literal dictionary definition version of fascism here:

please vote biden

"well biden is supporting genocidal states and he's too old and we can't just vote blue no matter who and" at this point i don't give a shit

the choice is between the united states as it always sucked or a significant chance you're going to have the same awkward discussions with your grandchildren that i had with my grandfather, centered around a topic that starts with "how could you have let that happen"

yes, the dems are garbage, yes, the united states is awful, yes, biden has done good in his term but there's a lot that won't be able to be achieved with him in office

the alternative might literally be you don't get to vote anymore

and whatever the united states do, the rest of the world has to follow


clairikine
@clairikine

Also, dual US/French citizen living in Germany here - I understand many people have been realizing to what extent the US is involved in making the world hell for people abroad, and I need them in turn to understand that opting out of this election will only make that quantifiably WORSE. We know this because we've seen it! We've witnessed the impact of US foreign policy our entire lives in ways that people in the US, for reasons often beyond their control, have not. And we were all there when 45 was president the first time! It's objectively worse for everyone if the de facto leader of the white supremacist Christian fundamentalists has a second go of it in Washington with a servile Supreme Court and Congress in tow!


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in reply to @thewaether's post:

"we deserve it" is such a deep betrayal of leftist principles anyway, like no nobody deserves to live in the world capitalist fascists are trying to create, that's the entire point! sin and punishment are a failed framework for motivating humans and shaping our destiny!

I'd call it a precise inversion. The exact opposite of the truth. Because there are two possibilities: if we deserve it, we had the power to cause it, and therefore have the power to undo it - and the framework of punishment is just a self defeating one which gives up a better future for spite. If we don't deserve it, then we have no reason not to fight against it, and find out if we have the power to change it. Either way, the implied conclusion of the argument of deserving (that we should consent to the punishment we deserve) is shown to be a bad one.

in reply to @MrMandolino's post:

at this point i don't give a shit

c'mon, don't say that. advocate for the sensible option however you must, but don't say you don't give a shit about what's going on in Palestine. i'm more than willing to listen in good faith but choose your words with a little more care for something this serious.

i knew that sentence specifically would have gotten this kind of reaction, and i agree fully, Palestine is an extremely serious issue where I think Biden is, to put it charitably, making massive mistakes (and actually enabling genocide to put it more bluntly)

but it's there for a reason. if Trump gets into power the genocide is going to be even worse, there are no ifs or buts about it. there might not even be a Palestine after four years of full presidential immunity Trump administration

i'm sorry that it came across as making light of it, that wasn't my intention, but i keep finding myself immersed in discussions that seem to ignore the reality of the current situation completely in favor of purity principles and the frustration is getting to me

i care about Palestine a lot, i've stopped caring about discussing why people shouldn't vote Biden in this election

in reply to @clairikine's post:

Two major things as a reminder:

  1. while i understand the sentiment, this message would be better cast on platforms with more far reaching signals. I'm really surprised popular youtubers that seem nice don't start saying "enough is enough" and engaging in serious talks with thier 5mil+ followers.

  2. the most important aspect to influence the elections and policies is to educate americans that the Pres elections is NOT the most important election. The important elections happen at mayor and state and courthouse etc. The USA's political system is designed to be tackled ground up. Local first, to put your guys in the state seats, and also the house, you use those to influence the country on a more solid direction. Atm everyone is concerned (and for the last 5 elections too) with only the presidency, but look at the senate seats, and the house seats, and judges in your state, and chairmen and mayors, all those decisions have a "Flowing upward" effect on politics as a whole. We as a poeple need to start pouring energy into a more ground up approach that will be more exhausting than just "Once every four years" presidentail elections.

Extra addition:

Remember the president can set the Current agenda to focus on during thier term, but it's the house, the senate, the legislature, and all the other dominos that influence morality and goals overall. Vote in your primaries, Vote in your rivals primaries too, A dem who's happy with thier dems but is worried for the repub's Could spend a year or two voting repub to influence better republican candidates, there's nothing wrong with doing that. (In fact alot of repub candidates have been bringing shame to repubs as a whole and I think this might be a valid course correct in the near future that we ought to do.) But yes vote for your mayors and stuff. Look at what they are allowing in your home town. Look at what your state's gov is made of. Pay attention to those things WAY more than just the presidentail. Cuz it's all those things that fascilitate getting to a point where a Trump can win in the first place. And they didn't teach me any of that in school that's for sure.

Just wanted to say in response to the original comment that I agree with your points about the structure of US politics, and I'm aware I'm more likely than not preaching to the choir in spaces like these. My main point is that from the standpoint of someone not living in the US, the US presidency (like the US in general) and who holds it does have an outsize importance for the rest of us, and that is a factor I wish was taken more into account by domestic voters in this election. I also do understand why it's not, but unfortunately that doesn't change the impact it has on the rest of the world.

Addition: Local and state elections are absolutely, absolutely crucial to folks living in the US, and for that reason I absolutely agree they should vote in and care about more than just the presidency. That said, those offices do not have a direct impact on other countries in the way that POTUS and Congress does.

I agree, I just get a bit flustered that we focus so hard on POTUS that it's almost ignoring all of the other structural tidbits that move the rest of it all. The agenda that Trump will set does affect our Foriegn policy and will have far reaching affects. It will have alot of impact. But if we want future trumps to not have a chance we still have to deal with our more scuffed up overall elected officials and re-evaluate who we support and stand for.

But it is also important that as a country that has SHOUTED from the rooftops during my youth that "we support democracy, freedom, liberty, and happiness for all" it would be EXTREMELY repulsive, hypocritical, and down right shameful to allow any form of Trump or similar to take the seat of the President, as that reflects on us as a nation as a whole to the rest of the world.

In the context of national electoralism voting Biden is just basic harm reduction. The American voter just has two bad options and everything for which we hate Biden, Trump has shown himself to be provably worse. I would vote for Biden's corpse if it would keep Trump out of the White House.