sapphyra

anarchist transbian robot girl

  • she/they

Hi! Just a cute trans girl on the internet. I have a plethora of random little hobbies and creative media I like to make stuff in, which I may or may not post when I have time. :3
This girl dreams of being a gamedev someday.
A little bit of a creature.

Going to miss Cohost so much when it's gone. :( Let's carry Eggbug in our hearts...


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balketh
@balketh

It's a reasonably firm sci-fi game, about exploring the stars, in which Weird Barely Explicable Things Do Happen, but the presence of extremely modern Earth-style religions does not feel right at all. Especially when the three immediate examples are given in three completely turn-off-ish examples of "Holier Than Thou", "You're Allowed To Be Wrong", and "Charity For Religion's Sake", all of which can get fuuuuuucked.

WHY are there only two major religions, and why are, initially, solely focused on getting others to believe their shit? Fucking player on-boarding. Immediate red flags if it were an IRL 'religion'. Where are the PERSONAL religions? Where are the xeno-focused religions? None of it feels true to the game world, but it feels like it's trying so hard to convince my character that it's real, which rings every alarm bell and raises every red flag for 'CON! IT'S A CON! IT'S JUST TWO HALVES OF MODERN AMERICAN CHRISTIANITY!'

Why are the two major religions seemingly theologically diametric? Why is the game asking ME to give them my belief when I've been given nothing to encourage that - not been raised as them, not been shown anything that could suggest it's true, etc. Aliens exist in this world - God's gonna have to do a LOT more than 'visions' and gravity powers when possibly psychic aliens exist.

I've not made it far enough in the game to know if the Enlightenment has some shitty stuff behind it, the """community""" focused one, but it's exceedingly jarring for me to see Fantasy-level belief like "oh of course the gods are real" in a world where... They're not confirmed to be real. At all. And FAR more likely, real-world sources exist for all of the supposed elements. It's Earth-Future, and they're not even the same 'god' as from Earth (I think).

It's simultaneously super fucking jarring and in your face, and everyone treats it - including their claims that it's ALL REAL - with equal seriousness to the one that is literally (AFAIK) just about community.

Like. Bethesda said they consulted with real world theologists and shit for this, but what it 100% feels like is that Bethesda consulted with Christians. I want sci-fi future weird cool religion. This is just fuckin' Space Christianity: Choose Your Flavour, and I'm more wearied and turned off by it than literally anything else in the game. I don't dislike religion - I dislike belief in something completely unconfirmable. Personal religion, belief, source of personal comfort and strength, etc - all good stuff. Genuinely believed claims that a thing exists that you cannot prove? That a thing can do things that cannot be reliably replicated? Literally zero proof? That's subjectivity, and belief without proof and replication is called Bad Science and that Gets People Killed.

It's just weird and not fun to me, because it's asking me to do all the theological belief and faith parts of religion, with none of the proof parts (which they basically leave on the table as 'you could choose to believe this is why this is happening', which is both meaningless to me, and a waste of my time in a game where you could have LITERALLY MADE IT REAL), and dampens the rest of the game by asking my character to make-believe, which is not the person in the situation that is supposed to make believe - that'd be me. Too many layers, not enough irony.


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in reply to @balketh's post:

This makes me so curious to play it and see just how much of a trainwreck it is. Cause, like, I'm a postrationalist, I argue that whether or not something is true is always an important question but not always the most important question in any given situation, but then it sounds from your description that Starfield's religions are explicitly rationalist about easily disprovable beliefs which is, like, basic bitch American bad theology?

I've just completed the temple in the second act of BG3 and spent so much of the time complaining to my co-op partner about how boring the religion is.

Yeah it's not really religion like we know it in BG3, or even in Faerun in general. They try to eat their cake and have it too, by having gods be both semi-autonomous pseudo-environmental divine ecosystems, andd also specific, unique individuals that actually exist and have bodies and actions and wills in the world, and it's very... Mixed. They combine the worst elements of present-but-fickle and distant-and-mysterious. Not a great time.

I shouldn't speak any more strongly of Starfield and Religion than I already have, because I haven't played enough of it to know anything more than the first impressions, and those might be turned on their head even early on (but, given Bethesda's track record, I... Highly doubt it.)

But that's what it felt like, in that first impression, which, on even a brief read-up, seemed to be spot on: on one side, there's one group that, hell for leather, believes a very real God Is Out There (X-Files music), where as the opposing 'religion' is... A very wanky atheist organisation focusing on humanitarianism, community, and chaaaaaarityyyyyyyy. And rounding out the tribunal, there's a Great Serpent worshipping Cult that seems to cause very literal negative effects on you if you don't gravwarp-jump regularly (and positives if you do). So... IDK about the rest of them, but that Cult actually sounds like it's got a lead on something wild.

There are, also, apparently, real world religions represented in the game, but they're not focused on and thus aren't joinable factions, unlike the above three. So there's that.

It seems like the most interesting question they wanted to ask the players with the inclusion of religion in this game is

"Do you believe that-"
points to weird gravity powers
"- is caused by God? Or are we divinely Alone In This Universe? (ignore the aliens they dont count.)"

With a background third party praying to the fucking Chaos Warp Serpent or some shit.