shel

The Transsexual Chofetz Chaim

Mutant, librarian, poet, union rabble rouser, dog, Ashkenazi Jewish. Neuroweird, bodyweird, mostly sleepy.


I write about transformative justice, community, love, Judaism, Neurodivergence, mental health, Disability, geography, rivers, labor, and libraries; through poetry, opinionated essays, and short fiction.


I review Schoolhouse Rock! songs at @PropagandaRock


Website (RSS + Newsletter)
shelraphen.com/

pervocracy
@pervocracy

Re-watching Game of Thrones for no reason and struck by the very 21st-century-Americanness of the "evidence" brought up in Loras Tyrell's trial to prove that he's gay:

  • He was very emotional after Renly died
  • His squire knows about a birthmark in an intimate location

And I'm just begging these writers to read, like, anything about the way men talked about and touched each other pre ~1960s! The Marlboro Man act where straight dudes can't hold hands or say "I love you" to their friends is so excruciatingly modern they might as well say "I know he's gay because I read it on his blog!"


Obviously a man would grieve passionately after a close friend dies! Obviously a squire helps his knight dress! The slice of history where "it's gay for one man to have seen another naked" makes any sense is so narrow you guys!

Heck, the slice where "being gay" is a question of identity and emotion, and not just "well, did he commit the Sin Of Sodom or not" isn't much wider. Being anxious that someone merely feels the wrong way about other men is the same kind of extremely modern insecurity that led to Jorah Mormont wearing trousers under his kilt.

(In-story Loras is being set up for political reasons and no one involved actually cares about his sexuality, but nonetheless. These still shouldn't be accusations that occur to them.)

(And yes, this isn't meant to be Earth history and they aren't Christians, but still. If you want a medieval-ish vibe and a sense of a fascinatingly foreign culture, don't give them the precise sexual mores of my ninth grade locker room.)

And I guess the reason this bothers me is that it's treating these concepts as natural. Like of course any place and time will recognize that two men bathing together are a bit [offensive hand gesture]. And that's not just factually wrong but annoyingly normalizing. The rules imposed on late-20th and early-21st century Western men to prove they're not even a little gay are such a weird little moment in history. It's, if not consciously homophobic, disappointing to see them thoughtlessly applied to fantasy.


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in reply to @pervocracy's post:

the "men shall never touch, and in intimate moments of affection or concern, shall be at least a full arm's length apart and not looking at each other" thing is EXCRUCIATINGLY modern, like more recent than the internet, I have a database (because I was curious and I watch a lot of TV)

Can I see it? I've had a pet rant about the topic since watching a 1940s movie (which I can't find from work but I'll try and remember later) with men very casually changing clothes in front of each other and touching each other in ways that are clearly nonsexual but also you would never see in a 2010s movie.

...also it is Complicated approaching this as a gay man because the "touching wasn't gay" has to share space with "but so what if it was? 😜" but that's okay, the point here isn't that I want an excuse to cuddle with straight men, more that I want them to stop living in mortal terror of the possibility

it's on my old desktop but I've been meaning for a while to sit down and port the entries to gdocs or something shareable, it's interesting even if it says a lot (MAYBE TOO MUCH) about which 80s/90s/00s shows I've seen every episode of

i think it would be very cute if all the men, real and fictional, felt perfectly comfortable with getting sensitive with the homies even in a non-sexual or romantic way. why must our world have been twisted into this stale and bland form

Good post! I hope you don’t mind a minor quibble from a stranger. 😅 I think “did they commit the sin of Sodom or not?” is too narrow a description of what was on trial historically.

The circle of “acceptable” intimacy was for sure wider than what it apparently was depicted in the show, but men were still absolutely punished for forms of intimacy other than just fucking.