smuonsneutrino

Black. TTRPGs & Math

  • he/him

designing Lanthorn, a TTRPG about suffering in a dungeon, but with post-PBTA/FITD vibes

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Eternally considering a series of posts called Category Theory Out Of Context

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pfp by @fxfi


smuonsneutrino
@smuonsneutrino

As someone whose elementary school and college friends were disproportionately Jewish and who has been thinking about Jewish folklore recently it strikes me that Rabbis (being scholars rather than priests) are just way more like Wizards than Clerics. I'm 100% certain I'm not the first person to notice this either.

And like, the way that Clerics (as usually written) find their true strength through Faith rather than through Thinking Really Hard About The Nature Of Reality etc. is also super Christian.

Idk I'm not a theologian or Jewish or religious at all and don't feel qualified to say much more than what I have. It's just extremely clear to me that D&D and its descendants often struggle to represent religion that doesn't feel very Christian in practice, format, or outlook. And our fantasy writing/rpgs deserve more than that.


thecommabandit
@thecommabandit

the fact that D&D was largely designed by an evangelical christian shines through like a nova when you start learning how historical greek and roman religion worked.

in most D&D settings, people pick a god they like or have an affinity with and worship them with prayers and acts of devotion, by living in accordance with their teachings, by taking vows etc. etc. this is not polytheism, this is flavoured christianity -- do you pray to God (the sea) or God (fire) or God (nature)? in historical european religions, you don't pray to poseidon and sing hymns to him, you pay fealty to him because he has the power to decide whether you live or die. if your last trip was good, clear sailing then you make an offering to one of his temples as thanks, because not thanking him is a quick way to incurr his wrath and get yourself killed. before a risky voyage you make a sacrifice to get on his good side so he'll intervene to help you, and if the priest administering the sacrifice determines that poseidon isn't pleased with your offering, you don't sail.

polytheistic religion is best understood as having relationships with nonphysical people, and those relationships vary depending on your society's social relations -- gods are kings whose favour must be gained by acts of fealty and service and whose wrath must be placated, while spirits and fae and nymphs are community members whose consent must be sought before you cut down that part of the forest, or build this house, or redirect this river.


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in reply to @smuonsneutrino's post:

Druids, being divine casters, could hypothetically be seen as pushing away from theism in favour of animism, but the text is too “I dunno, nature!” for that to really play out.

Gonna be chewing on your post.

(And yeah, seeing the only options as being “worship [a] god” or “worship a nebulous concept of nature” is itself a very western dichotomy)

Even within Theist religions, though, I feel like Clerics are very constrained. Like, the cleric is tied into not just theism or organized religion or into a world where the idea of priesthood makes sense, but in the specifics of how Christians relate to their god

in reply to @thecommabandit's post:

"polytheistic religion is best understood as having relationships with nonphysical people"

okay see now i want to put together an rpg where magic is fueled by a dating-sim style mechanic. you gotta navigate complex relationships with various cosmic entities to maintain your sorcery. really put the "poly" in "polytheism."

i put this on another post too but

I think you might like the way that Mythras approaches magic/religion.

here's a link to more mythras info

There are several belief and magic systems, including Animism (though how accurate their take on it is, I can't say) and religion and religious structures (whether linked to magic or not) are an expected element to engage with, expected to become huge parts of the PCs' lives should they so choose-- there's ways of going from acolyte all the way to priest, obligations and tithes to fulfill to your gods, or however you decide to structure your mystery cult.

in the mythras game i played, we had a dystheist god (I think that's the name) where we had to sacrifice to avoid their wrath.