spiders

daydreams, imaginary friends

traitorous fifth column secret fae here to tear apart the human world floorboard by floorboard with my teeth

we are always learning things about the world, and so excited to share them with you

see @iliana for our good posts


spiders
@spiders

PLEASE stop doing this thing where you hide the scroll bar when it's not being used, or make it invisible, or super thin and difficult to see. this post explains why. as an example of this...


spiders
@spiders

to disable it on websites (firefox)

download custom scrollbars by wesley branton and adjust the settings to your liking.

to disable it in the operating system (on linux)

every gtk app does this stupid ableist nonsense. gtk refers to it as "overlay scrollbars", it's been the default ever since the "ruin every gui with 'minimalism' and 'flat design'" craze of the 2010's, and it's very difficult to turn it off.

if you are very lucky, your desktop environment might provide some kind of way to disable it, probably buried deep in some settings menu, but i was not so lucky and the way i made my computer usable was by

  1. editing /etc/environmentas root
  2. adding the following on its own line: GTK_OVERLAY_SCROLLING=0

thank you to this linux mint forum thread for providing this solution


NireBryce
@NireBryce

but in 2012 I was posting to the Gnome 3.12 Issue List that due to a firmware bug my laptop could not wake from sleep, and thus I needed Gnome to stop overwriting my suspend_on_lid_close=false setting, as I could not afford a new computer at the time.

I was then deluged by replies telling me "gnome 3 is about reasonable defaults" and "no one uses that setting so we removed it" which would be cool if it didn't overwrite everywhere else I set it in the OS.

it's my understanding that they fixed this eventually, but gnome/gtk has always had this particularly bad taste in my mouth that xfce and kde haven't yet, though I'm uninvolved in Linux these days partially because of that experience.

I'm unfortunately not surprised those same defaults are causing other problems when people are outside the narrow range of their vision


lifning
@lifning

watching in real time in 2010 as gnome suddenly went from being a decent desktop environment with accessibility and customizability at the forefront, to being the one most actively hostile to those things (and toxic about imposing their ideas in general) in the unix gui ecosystem ever since, was certainly an experience

xfce currently wins the prestigious 'please just let me browse my files and manage my windows and display settings, i'll even accept some jank if it means not subscribing to some weird religious feud between factions of techbros most concerned with the details of how to shove their heads up their own asses' award, but pressure to move from X11 to Wayland may change this

xfce gets splash damage from gnome via mutual contact with gtk, but so far it's been the only acceptable one for me. i gave kde a try for a few years but it kept breaking things in updates and adding things that made me question whether anyone who works on it actually uses it


You must log in to comment.

in reply to @spiders's post:

if you put developers in charge of a city they would be like "it's long since time that we removed these ugly and unsightly tactile pavers on our curb cuts, to better pursue the minimalist aesthetic which is the future of good design. and we should stop having walk signals announce out loud when it's safe to walk- good design should speak for itself!"

you almost certainly already have tried, but if you middle click a non-link in a page that scrolls, at least on windows and Linux scroll will follow the mouse, and might enable easier bindings than the scrollbar even if i think the scrollbar also shouldn't be hidden

this doesn't really work for me because it scrolls very fast and can be erotic erratic with eye tracking

talon has a similar mode where the scroll follows your gaze at a much more reasonable pace, which we also sometimes use, but it's situational and a lot of the time just clicking the scroll bar is better because its less vocal strain

edit: correction of extremely funny dictographic error

in reply to @spiders's post:

This is such a stupid trend - and it's so utterly pointless :-/

I mean, maybe this kinda thing makes sense (in some way) on narrow smartphone displays or whatever.
But on desktop platforms (including laptops), where widescreen displays have been the standard for years, there really is no point in trying to gain a little horizontal space by making scrollbars disappear.

I wish Mozilla and Gtk developers (and Microsoft) would finally get off this horrible flat and low-contrast UI trend.
(Another pet peeve of mine: Title bars of windows where you can hardly tell which window is the active one, because instead of using a noticeable color for the title bar of the focused window vs and grey for the other ones, modern desktops tend to use the same color for all and then change the text color a little bit from greyish to black or whatever..)

in reply to @NireBryce's post:

the problem is you can't escape the bad design decisions of gnome because gtk is pervasive, and uses gnomes defaults. we use xfce and this scroll bar thing was a problem for us because everything uses gtk

gnomes decision affected me despite not using gnome

in reply to @lifning's post:

i've occasinally tried a couple other desktop environments just to try to get away from gnome but every time i do i find out that they are just categorically missing important display settings. like you literally cannot adjust the text antialiasing, or set a color profile for your screens. gnome kind sucks but at least gdm has these settings!

dunno what to do about this long term. probably it's just a reflection of how easy i have it in general but i'm able to just use gde and mostly never think about it

i think next i'm going to go labwc + standalone panel + shell scripts and see how far it gets me before i give up on computers altogether and just go live in the woods with DSOrganize and hacking an old release of BeUp to connect to some MSN Messenger protocol server bridged to Matrix or something

Pinned Tags