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endlessforms
@endlessforms

its such a shame that the good word of "stop using 5-7-5" has not been spread to most of the haiku posters of cohost.

See https://www.nahaiwrimo.com/why-no-5-7-5 for information about why your 5-7-5 haikus are actually too long for a haiku (and also it may be impeding your creativity)


thaliarchus
@thaliarchus

It's a strong case.

A minor cavil: English limericks typically count beats but not, within certain tolerances, syllables. Wikipedia says they do, but you can 80%+ assume anything Wikipedia tells you about prosody is wrong. In this case the various examples on the page itself show variation in offbeats; the very first example has six syllables in its third line and five in its fourth line ('But the good ones I've seen | So seldom are clean'), even though the two lines are metrically equivalent.

As for things to do instead, this is my approach, trying to find something equivalent to some aspects of Japanese form in its constraints and its reliance on perceptible features of the language in question (here: English). I'm sure there are many other things we could be doing too.


calliope
@calliope

I spent a few years writing a "haiku" daily and with a handful of serendipitous exceptions, never followed the 5 7 5 rule.

As the image above points out, to me, the most important part of a haiku is the seasonal image. Another extremely important part is the cutting word, which is of course much more difficult in English so I didn't always try that.

If you really want to explore haiku, the best resource I can think of is Kodansha's edition of Bashō's haiku (yes that Kodansha). I've taught from it before. The book includes lovely translations and then all the poems again in kanji, romanji, and literal translation. You can see what's actually going on in the original even if you aren't exceptional at Japanese (I am certainly not).

To end, regarding what @thaliarchus said about English language features, I largely have ended up using head rhyme in all my poems based on these years of writing haiku, as that's one of the more "natural" (a loaded description) features of the language.


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in reply to @spiders's post:

The thing though is that
Although poetry is art
Constraints can help too

Sometimes putting thoughts
In a limited word scale
is part of the fun

Even without the
Eb and flow of nature's theme
We can still see it

Although a new name
Would not be a bad thing, but
That battle was lost

in reply to @thaliarchus's post:

Thank you for pointing this out! It sounds like there is a very strong case for making an epub. I will look into that. I'm afraid I can't promise quick progress, because this is something I do for 30 to 60 minutes every day, I'm not very technically adept, and so on. But I'll see if I can get there!

If it's any comfort in the meantime, we are probably still six months to a year away from my finishing the whole thing, as an optimistic estimate, so so far you're only missing out on the partial drafts. But I appreciate that that's only a small consolation when something sounds interesting...

no worries!!!! i understand how it is

also i do HAVE a oversized handmedown remarkable tablet i could use to read the pdf version, its just inconvenient because of its size, its not suited for bringing on the bus or whatever which is where i do a LOT of my reading. so i guess in the meantime i could look at the drafts on that thing if im feeling particularly eager. but i'll put in a follow on itch and keep a look out for news in six months to a year x3

in reply to @calliope's post:

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