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leggystarscream
@leggystarscream

Poison - damage over time
Paralyze - lose a turn
Confusion - loss of options/control
Intimidate - debuff a stat

These can be combined to make the entire suite of debuffs (is, Pokemon's burn is a Poison + Intimidate)

* Some may argue that Petrification and Reflect are additional metrics, but other scholars ( cough @Demerine ) argue that that Petrification is a subset of Paralyze**, and Reflect shouldn't be in this taxonomy since it's typically framed as a buff***.

** The debate mainly centers around whether Petrification's status as a loss continuous and how it removes the affected from the fight is enough to pull it into a category of it's own, but then you have FF1PR Petrification and Pokemon Freeze where the affected character can still be targeted for attacks despite the associated low condition.

*** This argument has been contentious in the field since it's inception (yesterday) since the other main scholars (myself) argue that this taxonomy should cover both positive and negative effects alike.


the-doomed-posts-of-muteKi
@the-doomed-posts-of-muteKi

One of my favorite things about Phantasy Star IV is that the paralyze status effect isn't temporary but is more like a soft, curable death, so that if all your party members become paralyzed that's actually a game over. The most likely place for this to happen is right around the time you get Gryz, and it's very possible, especially if you've played the game before and forget it's not paralysis under pokemon rules, to reach that point in one sitting and then game over


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in reply to @leggystarscream's post:

There's also Instant Death which is separate from Paralyze though similar. I would also argue that stuff like Slow would fall under your definition of Paralyze and redefine the category as "negative Turn economy", which would then also include Instant Death, Frozen, Stop, and the like.

a) buffs are status effects as 'status effect' is value-neutral; this may require expansion or redefinition of categories (ie, 'paralyze - lose a turn' could potentially be 'direct action economy manipulation' (maintaining distinction with confusion, which preserves action quantity))
b) pursuant to the discussion thread regarding instant death, this is putting the cart before the horse here; 'instant death' describes the method of inducing the status effect, not the status effect itself, because:
the actual status effect that instant death applies is 'dead', which removes all actions, making it a substatus of the defined action economy manipulation status of paralyzed, therefore:

both petrify and dead are substatuses of paralyzed, and the specific distinctions surrounding them (ff1pr petrify oddities, difficulty removing dead status) are merely what distinguish them within the group.

I would focus on a taxonomy that deals largely in fundamental resources. For example, if petrify is 'different', it's only because it interacts with another fundamental resource, the ability to control that character, or all characters, forever. If you want to separate out 'lose the game' from 'confuse' and 'paralyze' you can do so, but poison also leads to lose the game in many games, so I feel like that threads something complicated through your taxonomy.

I like having a unified system for buffs and debuffs but the main thing that does is create the concept of 'opposites' and a space for 'things which don't have opposites', as well as fully containing things that are both (eg: berserk).

Many modern games also use status effects as tags for additional abilities, so a generalized 'tag' concept would almost certainly be part of the definition of a specific game's statuses.

"poison also leads to lose the game in many games" - I'd argue that you don't lose the game because you're poisoned, you lose the game because of the damage poison dealt you (in addition to the damage you go from outside sources), unless in that specific game "having posion applied to everyone" is its own loss condition

I think the paralyze/petrify/death discourse isn't hitting the important differentiation, which is that "If the entire party has this status, is the battle instantly lost?"

Paralyze/Stop/Freeze are non-defeat statuses, but Petrify IS. Therefore, I propose there being 5 statuses.

None of the other 4 instantly lose the game if the entire party is afflicted. It may greatly raise the chances of a loss, but it is not the same as an immediate lose condition.

Similarly, the Zombie status from Final Fantasy V is a hybrid of Confusion and Death, because it is both a loss condition and a removal of control from the player.

Ok but what about Doom/Death Sentence where it puts a timer over your head and something bad happens at the end of the timer?

Or what about an effect like Blind in FF6 SNES, where it doesn't actually do anything at all?

So, the countdown doesn't change up the base imo - it's on a slightly different axis. Toxic in Pokemon dealing ramping damage over time, and it's clearly a subset of poison - so there's precedence for the effect's value changing over time, which means and effect that does nothing for 3 turns and then a pile of damage would still be a poison, just like Doom is a variant of Instadeath.

Blind in FF6 is a bug and I'm more interested in the intent of the status rather than issues of actual implementation

Sure, and technically Blind is a completely functional debuff, it's just that it debuffs a non-functional stat. But it does give me the thought of a game just having a null status effect that is like, "this status does nothing, but having it there is just going to bother you if you don't dispel it. Go ahead, waste a turn casting Esuna, you know you want to!"

yeah i dont think the countdown changes the function because i think if we wanted to apply the taxonomy along those lines it would be

death sentence: applies status 'dead' (after a timer)

this does potentially create a classification category of 'statuses that cause other statuses' as this might be significant enough to be noteworthy itself

Oh, I like that. Instigator statuses, which themselves do nothing, but place a condition that will lead to another status. (Like Yawn from Pokemon or Rot in Breath of Fire 2.)

While they do not immediately do anything, they do force the player to play differently.