thecybird

Funny Mechanical Birb Artist

  • any pronouns

Voidpunk agender aromanic asexual.
A robot from 404 years in the retrofuture, roughly in the shape of a California Scrub Jay.
> play "/sounds/caws/*.ogg" shuffleloopall
@hungybirb for vore type content


Discord Server
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lexyeevee
@lexyeevee

we live in a strange world where "talking" and "publishing" have become somewhat conflated, simply because having your words be public and globally accessible is the path of least resistance for asynchronous communication. if you want to say something to ten friends, you can either track them all down and gather their access controls on a single platform and create a group space, or just fire off a post somewhere and assume they all follow you. (or email them, i guess, but who does that?)

i suspect this is the core disconnect the cohost userbase keeps having with accessibility — the people who see all posting as a form of publishing think there are hard obligations on the publishers, whereas the people who see their posting as talking to their ten friends think complete strangers are walking up to them in a bar to go "hey i can't understand your conversation, that's ableist". to which a completely reasonable response would be: who the fuck are you?

the outspoken a11y crowd here, the "publishing" folks, seem to think that if they condemn others for failing to live up to their obligations in stronger and stronger language, eventually that will cause... something... to happen. but to the "talking" folks, who don't see those obligations in the first place, that can only sound more and more unhinged.

and i don't see a path to victory for the "publishing" folks. because those obligations just don't exist, and even if you think they ought to, you cannot will them into existence by immediately applying as much social pressure as you can muster. you just come across as a bully. at worst, you make accessibility seem like a nightmarish and toxic subject that should be given as wide a berth as possible, because now someone's first exposure to it is a stranger yelling at them to not have fun in their posts.

it's certainly nice if more posts use, for example, alt text. i don't think that means people are jackasses if they don't use alt text. they're not getting paid for this. they're just posting, for themselves. no one is required to accommodate strangers in their own personal space, and telling them they're ableist is highly unlikely to inspire them to open their arms wider. you cannot scold the world into being more compassionate.

i said before that "not everything can be for everyone" and a bunch of people got mad, but that doesn't make it any less true. there are people on here whose posts i find unbearable to read, so i don't read them. i don't get a lot of cultural references, which is not a disability, but i don't often have the attention budget for medium-length fiction, which is a disability, and personally the upshot is exactly identical in both cases: a post i end up scrolling past, with a vague sense that i missed out on something. i sometimes think about lexy's labyrinth and how i just do not know how to make a sokoban game comprehensible using only audio cues. (i also do not know how to make a sokoban game more playable for people who just aren't very good at sokoban.)

the original problem here isn't even that a handful people are typing as yinglets. the original problem is that one person doesn't want to mute the yinglets because they still want to read the yinglets' other posts, so they want the yinglets to do some extra work to save them from making an unsatisfying decision, and the yinglets don't want to. that's not a systemic accessibility issue so much as a mundane interpersonal one.


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in reply to @lexyeevee's post:

i don't think the publishing side is asking for it as an obligation, i feel like they're asking them to put in just a little effort. It's really not that much work to add a tag or even alt text - i know that post about didoing is still circulating but like, its 16 characters of text. thats truly about as low effort as things get - and in that respect, its a much lower stakes case of the same shit as masking, imo:
"hey, can you accomodate me?" "lmao get fukt".

but it is work, and people may not want to do unpaid labor for their two-line whatever posts about nothing, for the sake of someone whose primary interaction with them has been anger

and hell, whether you think that's reasonable of them or not: they don't want to do it. ok. now what? complain louder? that doesn't make them want to do it more. they're not a business you can boycott. what are we doing here

and it's not remotely the same as masking wtf. i can't avoid unmasked people with the click of a button

The response to "can you accomodate me?" is still "excuse me but who are you?"
It sounds tautological but for someone to care about something they have to care about it, and making someone care isn't accomplished by nagging people until they cave in. If someone in here is just posting for their friends to see, then get to be their friend, that way they'll care. Otherwise just block them, done. They're not in the business of producing Content and they shouldn't be treated as such.

What the fuck are you talking about? Just because someone didn't check off a tick somewhere in the options, suddenly they're a content machine? Are you really saying that the default state of someone in here is a content provider? How about just a fucking person?

Jesus Christ, wasn't this the whole point of cohost? To create a place where people would move away from the mentality of posting things for Engagement and Metrics, and actually just get to be people talking at each other? Leave your twitter brain at the door, for the sake of the rest of us.

You said "in the business of" and then tried to make a hairsplitting semantic argument about something unrelated when people objected, one of the most standard twitterbrained maneuvers. I produce shit every day, I am under no obligation to make it taste good to you.

making things ≠ producing Content

Like, I get that social media blurs the line on that, but there's such a thing as people meaning to post things just so that their dozen friends can see it. And yeah, they still posted it publicly, so do whatever the fuck you want with that post, but don't go bother them for chrissake

The actual responses to "Hey, can you accommodate me?" were along the lines of "This is just how I type and I'm not going to tag every one of my posts, but here are tools that will translate posts for you", and unfortunately some users on the publishing side decided the best response to that was to just be louder about it without attempting to actually resolve the issue.

This. I'm also getting annoyed that my initial comment of "okay, pretend it's in another language as a thought exercise of how you would behave if circumstances were different" has been met with the most bad-faith rebuttals and excuses that make the whole situation look even more ridiculous.

The outrage can't taken seriously because so much of it is now centered around how Yinglish isn't serious/legitimate/real/whatever, an argument that no one was actually making, rather than "you cannot dictate how people post on their personal blogs on the internet, no matter how annoying or inaccessible you find it. End statement."

tags are inherently more searchable/discoverable than no tags, even if rebugs are enabled. Not wanting your post in search is fine (as is not wanting to clog the tag!) so idk why it's all about effort here

Yeah, I feel like a lot of it comes from the difference between running a "big account" or being an "influencer" and how people don't like the think about the nuance around those things.

Like, this isn't my fuckin' job. If you don't like how I post, feel free to unfollow, this is all so low-stakes. At the same time, if someone asks for accomodation politely, I am more likely to follow through with it. Someone on tumblr asked me to tag spiders, so I do. But I'm not gonna tag everything under the sun under the fear of someone, somewhere, maybe being sensitive to it. That's how you get nine million scopophobia tags on every tumblr post circa 2014.

Everyone wants to put together hard and fast rules for Being a Good Person so they can decide who the bad people are and badger or ostracize them. It's frustrating.

there is one particular thing i have a very hard time seeing, but i can't ask for accommodation for it — last time i did, a bunch of people immediately tweeted that thing at me 🙃 which is maybe coloring a lot of my perspective here

yeah, this puts into more and better words than i could manage an aspect to accessibility that’s been on my mind for a while. i think this applies elsewhere as well. like, i often see people nostalgic for old software/websites with wild UI designs which are quite inaccessible, but they’re not somehow wrong for enjoying those things either. similarly there are thousands of people who play Super Smash Bros. Melee, a game that literally destroys people’s hands and generally requires hundreds of hours of tech practice to be any good at, but if that’s their joy then they can engage with it.

the people who enjoy these things might think they’re demonstrably superior products though, and they’re definitely not, because not everyone is capable of enjoying them. similarly, people concerned with accessibility might think more accessible alternatives are demonstrably superior, but they’re definitely not, because accessibility is mutually exclusive with certain types of fun. (you have the same problem with security, where security and conveniences are mutually exclusive.) the joy people take out of some games seems inherent to their inaccessibility; i’m pretty sure this is why Dark Souls exists.

i think there’s a secondary consideration to accessibility beyond just “being able to use a thing”, which is seeking to expand a community. i’ve definitely seen people fall out of Melee because they just couldn’t play the game, and it made them sad to lose access to that community in that way. people are correct that making the game more accessible would allow that community to grow even larger. but at the same time… not everyone wants a maximally large community. smaller communities have distinct advantages which are not invalid, and i recognize those as someone who does small community moderation and who has determined he does not enjoy interacting with “fandoms” at large.

…even typing this out, i’m still not sure this the right conclusion to be drawing. it feels “off” to use accessibility to determine community size. i guess the point is that different communities have different tolerances for size and for effort they can expend on accessibility? and i do think there can be some accessibility decisions which are essentially strictly incorrect; even Melee reached this point, with UCF now becoming a standard game modification so that the playing field across input hardware is more reasonably level. but at the same time, maximal accessibility is obviously impossible (as is maximal security, which requires every computer to be unplugged forever). you can’t make a puzzle game that is accessible to everyone with cognitive impairments, and that’s not bad.

separately: the question of “who are you beholden to” is ultimately up to the person developing the game or writing the post though. (involving money arguably complicates the answer here, but capitalism puts wrenches in everything.) social networks just, have inadequate controls when it comes to managing reach, i think. i still can’t disable replies on Mastodon posts. or like, imagine if you could lock shares beyond a certain number of generations (A is shared by B but B’s share cannot itself be shared), or lock shares from adding their own content (quoting is still a huge matter of debate on Mastodon). Mastodon lets you keep your posts public but manually approve followers, which is a useful mode of operation that cohost just doesn’t have. or imagine if your profile was private but your posts could still be publicly shared. all kinds of unexplored options here! i think some of these would be adequate for people who want easy sharing with their friend group but don’t want to unexpectedly get put on public blast (as you’ve described).

smash is such a fascinating thing to bring up here because it is The Accessible Fighting Game, but as happens with a lot of things, the people who take it as seriously as humanly possible are the ones who define what "the community" is, and that makes it inaccessible. like, i enjoy smash fine, but i would never want to play smash with someone who Plays Smash, which in practice means i just don't play smash. but meanwhile my vague understanding of it is better than ash's, so it's not fun for them to play with me, either. not sure what to take away from that

imo the fact that Smash is still “the accessible fighting game” just tells me that fighting games aren’t very accessible on the whole lol. that’s a huge tangent for which i already have a multi‐thousand‐word draft in the works though.

i also don’t know why the competitive community is seen as like, “canonical”, though. i mean, there are dozens of Smash “sub‐communities” focused on other things: speedrunning, visual art, stage building, music, challenge runs, fanfictions, various kinds of mods, casual play of all sorts… but it all still feels beholden to the competitive scene. maybe they’d be better off if they didn’t feel like they had to accommodate this “ruling class” and what they want.

Yes, conversation between yinglets and only yinglets don't need to have the tags. But if you have friends or mutuals who need accessibility, or you want to make those sorts of friends someday, or you're responding to posts from others as part of a larger conversation that could involve people with disabilities. please use the accessibility features available to you. And if you don't care about disabilities unless they involve you or your friends, then I hope you're not planning to make friends with people with disabilities.

please use the accessibility features available to you.

Oh, like the easy-to-install browser extensions or userscripts which can replace all instances of "zh" with "th," thus translating the yinglets flawlessly without negatively impacting most* other posts? Is that a feature people should use?

* Still messes with some names, such as Zhao, but English has like two entire words that use "zh" and they're used approximately never.

is carrying a large physical object everywhere really comparable to clicking two links??

you're closer to saying "people shouldn't have to use wheelchairs". yeah i guess not but i don't know what kind of world you're actually envisioning or how you plan to get us there

if their browser is compatible

It's almost certainly Chrome, Chromium, or Firefox, all of which are. If it isn't, they're tech-savvy enough to adapt it or just write their own in 5 minutes.

the install process is reasonably accessible

It's a combination of an app store and either a button, or a few buttons plus copy/paste. Signing up for cohost is about on par with this.

they know how to do it

It takes less effort to look it up and do than it does to find and sign up for cohost. I'm not going to infantilize disabled people by implying they are incapable of a web search and following simple written instructions.

Oh, neat! I'll admit that I was thinking of a slapdash word-replacement script more than an actual existing tool, so I'm relieved but not surprised that it accounts for stuff like that!

your posts are one of zhe only zhings keeping me sane, zhankyou for writing zhem and giving me words to express why i'm upset about being at zhe center of all zhis

and related to your original comment about yinglets not typing in zheir accent, yeah of course zhe ones in our source material don't but species euphoria is really hard to come by when you're supposed to be 3 feet tall and have hands instead of feet, yknow?

zhankyou again for standing up for us

the internet has conditioned everyone to approach everyone else as if they were a Fortune 500 company instead of a person, and i do not like it even a little bit

i wish people could calm the fuck down and realize the stakes here are so so so low.

I think that fortune 500 bit comes with codifying everything to who has power over who -- I've seen posts (here and elsewhere) legit talking about it even for stuff like, "I have 100 more followers," or, "i have a good relationship with my parents," as something that needs to considered as power dynamics.

mood -- I honestly think that "if they condemn others for failing to live up to their obligations in stronger and stronger language, eventually that will cause... something... to happen." was codified in the cultural zeitgeist back in like, 2012 tumblr, and has only become stronger since then.

People see it as their hammer, and everything is a nail.

"Talking vs publishing" feels like a phenomenon I've either talked about myself before or seen others talk about, and rather succinctly summarises why all this discourse happens at all.

Heck, it may be why any discourse ever happens - this standard for posting, nay existing online, where you have to adhere to a global standard someone has invented for you because to that person your posts will be within their (and everyone else's) purview.

This was especially true on Tumblr when it lacked (lacks?) proper blocking and filtering. Someone reblogging a post onto your timeline now became part of your domain, and if you didn't like it the only way to get rid of it was to Unperson the poster. But that person might've just been "talking" to their friends. They weren't thinking about you at all.

Very interesting look at the philosophical aspects of social media. I fall on both sides you pose in this where my art pages like my comics are "publishing" and this page (personal) is literally just me talking into the void hoping people I vibe with find it. On my publishing pages I do face that issue where it's made for a seeing audience as my mind acts visually. I make lots of visual gags in @SiliconeValleyComic and can't really alt-text a visual gag. I also plan to eventually do little text blurbs that involve jokes that use tech like screen readers and braille displays. I like doing stuff for accessibility and that represents people with disabilities but I want it to be natural. I want organic interactions in my work that feel like just chilling with my fellow disabled homies.

A big part of why I'm super into blogging and especially long-form selfposting and so on is that it's what social media should have been. Just a place to exist on our own terms, with a little niche carved out. Not everything has to be a hustle and grind, we don't all have to be influencers and whatever.

I really hate the ingrained Internet mindset where all activity must be all things for all people and that you need to attract an Audience and whatever.

I definitely prefer the Internet being places where 10 friends can talk to each other about the things friends talk about.