tobo-mouse

local mouse squeaks lots

  • he/him

I am new to this, uh,


folly
@folly

this morning before I awoke i was designing a game — receiving a game, a premonition, a thought. after certain checkmates, the songbird said, is a yuri of absence.

the kings must eliminate each other; ignore the rule that kings cannot come adjacent to one another and where the game normally ends, but keep any others from original chess. the board is smaller, intimate, and on its axis. black's goal is to have the black king eliminate the white king, or the white king eliminate the black king. red's goal is to stop this by forcing any king into checkmate by a non-king piece. pawns can move forward along the former rank or file "outward", and capture along the former diagonal. bishops move as always, though it feels more straightforward on this axis. knights follow their normal rules. white to move

edit: yuri chess is now available on itch, including a way to play online!


folly
@folly

we were able to do the first full playtest of yuri chess this morning!

black stumbled into a win for Red, accidentally checkmating the white king with a knight in the process of trying to clear one of red's knights. we started again from the move right before, after which it was a very close game but the black king was able to come to the center of the board, and white chose to end the game bringing the kings together!

got a lot of good feedback; but I'm feeling really good about the rules and how they end up reflecting the themes of the game. the empty corner of the board; the subversion of "victory", the intimate boardsize.

quote from the playtest: "You technically know everything you can do — what's new are the consequences."


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in reply to @folly's post:

Fascinating! This was brought up by one of the playtesters this morning; I think the similarities are interesting but largely superficial. While both games feature three players and a chesslike origin, the gameplay, point of the game, and scale are I think thoroughly different.

in reply to @folly's post:

So, this is essentially a co-op game for black and white, right? They want their kings to kiss, and it doesn't matter which one makes the capturing move? Red wins by preventing this and getting a checkmate on either black or white's king

Seems like the best strategy would be for black and white to just gang up and remove all of Red's pieces, then mate (pun intended) at their leisure. Have you tested if Red can withstand that?

edit - i get that this is mostly a yuri joke, and if you want to leave it at that that's fine. If you want to refine the game though, giving red a more powerful set of pieces and making black and white's starting positions more jumbled could help. swapping white's green bishop and their green knight for example, or giving red a queen instead of a king.

thanks for the comment!

If viewed strictly as a game to be solved, I believe it is possible that there is some optimal structure of moves for black and white to make such that red has no chance. However, this is limited by several factors:

  • One must take care not to checkmate Red in the process; if while you are removing Red's pieces, they can manuever their own king into a checkmate by a non-king piece, Red wins the game. This is different from normal chess, where two players would always defeat an isolated third.
  • While there is nothing in the rules that prevents white and black from communicating or collaborating, they often do not, or do not share the same strategy, especially from move 1 (and once pieces are moved, pre-planned strategies are out the window). That there are humans playing each of these sides (and not in fact one human playing both black and white) affects the game dramatically, in practice.
  • A winning strategy for Black is set forth in the rules; the same is true for Red.

oh, i completely missed that red can win by walking their own king into a checkmate! yeah, that changes things a lot, and makes the gang up on red plan way more complicated.

and yeah, i get that this is more a performative thing than a pure strategy game, and that players will be messy and dramatic rather than purely playing to win. since i missed the red self checkmate victory though, the gang up strategy seemed like it'd be so easy to execute that players could almost do it accidentally, and miss the opportunity to be dramatic.

Congratulations, you might be the first to notice! Yes, it is intentionally omitted. Players who play following the rules, in my experience playtesting, assume a co-equal relationship between white and black, but in fact white has a choice to make; the choice to connect or abandon connection, or to trust fate—or others—to make that decision for her. The fact that she makes the first move of the game helps set her momentum one way or another; she can think of herself passively, or actively, but each round, she must act.

as a reader who is not straight but absolutely does not know anything about Yuri as a genre beyond "girls romance with other girls I guess?":

I would say that I picked up on some of these ideas organically, the notion that something is happening between black and white that red is trying to stop, that what red wants is aligned with the usual norms of chess and what black wants is contrary to them, perhaps as a metaphor for queerness? if this is reflective of what goes on in a typical yuri manga it's kind of interesting, perhaps not to the point where I'm going to actually read it, but enough to make me think about it

wait, what have you done? haha I've never considered a game where one player's objective is left undefined.

Okay, also: red only wins by having a king checkmated by a non-king. You actually can, then, eliminate red from the board, as long as you checkmate their king using a king.

be gay, do game design crimes.

Does this described checkmate work because of the opening line about how "the kings must eliminate each other," thus an implication of the red king being eliminated as a possible goal of black and/or white? Or does this not work because the rules of yuri chess say to "ignore [the rules of] where the game normally ends?" (I'm deep in the weeds here with yuri chess set up on my coffee table, and I don't want to post the hassle of my 5-6 other questions, so I'll leave it at that.)

red's win condition is any king being checkmated by a non-king piece. So therefore checkmating them using a king would eliminate their king without triggering their win. Honestly it's probably easier in most cases to have the white and black kings meet, but perhaps if you had an uncooperative white it may be a useful quirk? especially if you realize it before your opponents, then you may just be able to take advantage of a particularly foolhardy red.

I don't think eliminating the red king would actually remove their ability to play using their remaining pieces though? due to the "where the game normally ends" clause

holy shit I can't stop thinking about it, this game is poetry haha

like, you're primed to expect a game between black and white. red naturally appears to be the intruder. red even seems to be coming in perpendicular to the game. but really, white is the odd one out. the game is a contest between black and red, white can't win. and yet, in fact, by not having an objective, white is the only one with free will. there's actually multiple subgames possible depending on white's strategy, collaboration, avoidance, orthodoxy, and white isn't in fact incentivized to commit to any strategy, because she isn't incentivized by the game at all!

how the fuck did you make this rofl

I have two questions. I had three, but turn order was addressed in an earlier comment

What happens if red's king is taken by either of black's or white's? What happens if either of black's or white's kings are taken by red's?

Basically, what if a wrong yuri happens?

Yes! So far I've found that "follow the other rules of chess" covers that, though it's definitely something to make clear in a longerform of rules (after all, pawns can't ever make it to the "8th" rank, so one could assume otherwise). However, despite it only taking three moves to do so, so far it seems like it'll happen surprisingly rarely - about as often in original chess.

Hrm, if black and white play together, I feel like it might be easy to evade the forward-running red bishops by capturing the white/black pawns in a smart way.

… another thing I just thought about, if white starts, who’s next? Red or black?

If it helps, the board we've been using to play has a further indication to make it easier to tell which direction the pawns move: https://staging.cohostcdn.org/attachment/32877c61-ebd2-4de3-902e-29399f3e45f5/yurichess%20B.png?dpr=1.4634146341463414&width=628&height=628&fit=cover. In case orthogonal and diagonal are unclear; at any point, the pawn may move "forward" along the long edge of the square, or capture along either of the two forward corners. The way this works out, two of black's pawns move along one axis (the left two pawns towards the upper left edge of the board), whereas the other two pawns move on an axis 90 degrees different (the right two pawns towards the upper right edge of the board).

I've never seen game writing in github before! Then again, I don't use github in my day-to-day. There's quite a few things I'd change in your writing of the rules; let the kings capture kings and a great deal is simplified. Black does not need to force a win, and in fact wins by consent most commonly. in Object* the colors as listed should be Black, Red, then White, if you are listing white at all (the original rules intentionally do not, but I can see why you would if you are mathematizing the whole process to remove any poetry from it.) I do think the poetry of the game is essential to its gameplay, but I'll do my best in the next iteration of the game to spell out the idiosyncrasies you've encountered in your writ; stalemate (in the form of no moves that would not lead to check or checkmate) should be ignored and played through, likely leading to the capture of the king or checkmate and a potential end of the game; stalemate in the form of no moves available whatsoever to a single player should skip that player's turn; stalemate in the form of no player able to complete a move, or in the form of threefold repetition, should be a draw.

It absolutely shows my age, but the moment I read, "You technically know everything you can do — what's new are the consequences." a pop-up appeared in my brain saying, "hot damn, I need that printed on a shirt."

Give that playtester a prize, most profound general-use statement I've seen all week.

Hi, question: Can the red king take another king just like the black and white kings can with one another? The necessity could arise in a position where red is in check from a non-king piece and has only that one move (king takes king) available to escape check/mate.

If so, this could be prevented by either non-red player defending the non-red king in question with another piece, such that the red king can't take without putting itself into check.

If not, then the game insists even more on a use of two different kinds of check, which I think is really interesting. The kings are like particles that aren't supposed to be able to touch, and when you make it happen all sort of questions arise.

I think in most scenarios, the answer here is for red to not escape the checkmate but lean into it. However, we can't just say "you can ignore checks and then just let your king be taken", as victory for red can come with their own king being checkmated in particular. So, if the white and red kings are adjacent and literally no other pieces are checking the king and no moves are available (perhaps in a case of pseudo-epaulette mate?), the red king could be forced to take the white king.

Following the rules from there, I think we should adjudicate the result: either red still needs to pursue their own victory condition - placing either the red or black king under traditional checkmate (a red victory), failing which the game ends in a draw (for instance if all the pieces have been removed from the board save one king), or simply say that in this case the game is a draw. I'm tempted to say that if red king captures white or black king the game draws, and if white or black kings capture the red king the game proceeds (see your comments above, where this presents a handicap for red but not an elimination.)

The other option I see in the event of red capturing the white king is — if all players agree — to turn the lights out in the room. Success at this maneuver may see that red king is black now, and therefore victory for their side (perhaps all sides) has been conveniently achieved; similar creative solutions may occur to players encountering this uncommon situation in actual play.