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joewintergreen
@joewintergreen

Playing GTA4 and thinking about how much a minimap can ruin this type of game. GTA and Red Dead 2 both become whole different games when you turn it off, in a weirdly instantly-refreshing way. In RDR multiplayer, I got a friend to turn it off as we were just riding our horses around, and not even 5 seconds later he went "holy shit".


amydentata
@amydentata

I really hate playing a tiny game in the corner of the screen that has no graphics. I've gone from thinking of the minimap as an unfortunate necessity to seeing it as a genuine, serious flaw.

There is one purpose that it truly serves, and that is treating open-world games as a Content buffet, rather than a game. It simplifies the production process at the cost of everything else. It lets your company become a Content factory. And fuck that


mrhands
@mrhands

As someone who has spent the past two years building a minimap (and other map screens) for an AAA game, I wholeheartedly agree. Minimaps are the most complicated piece of UI tech by far, which is fun for me1, but they're often used to paper over readability issues with the level design. Many games become impossible to play if you turn the minimap off.


  1. A minimap is on the HUD, which means it has to be optimized to run at 60 FPS at all times. However, it's also extremely dynamic, because icons constantly appear, disappear, and change states. Oh, and it needs to stream in map textures fast enough to maintain the illusion of an infinite-scrolling map. Good luck; have fun!


v21
@v21

this makes me wonder at how much of the praise directed at BOTW came from the way they did at least a little design work around the minimap. (not least: it doesn't have a map in it til you've spent at least a little time in each area)


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in reply to @joewintergreen's post:

reminds me of Nier Automata’s solution. there’s a minimap but it’s intentionally kind of shit, missing small details and unable to see through buildings or tree cover

it’s obviously designed to avoid the problem you’re describing, but then there’s in-game dialog where they’re like “oh yeah the mapping satellite sucks; it’s like twelve thousand years old and we can’t fix it” lol

this is also HUGE for breath of the wild / tears of the kingdom. the minimap kills those games, and all of my friends poke fun of me for playing in pro hud mode but THEY DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY'RE MISSING

can't remember the exact genesis of the term but it was either LGS or Ion Austin that coined "playing the HUD", and yeah it's fuckin kryptonite for good level design! and we lost to it on Bio1 even though those levels were generally linear as hellll. AAA director brain allergic to players not having Progress shoveled into their faces at warp speed.

"playing the HUD" is fantastic, didn't know someone came up with a term for it. i ran into that as well a while back, players concentrate on the most optimal way to complete things and almost completely abstract themselves away from the game's world

I was a UI Programmer on GTAV and RDR2, I've since switched to UX Design, in part of learnings and failings on those games. You're right about the games being better without a mimimap. To RDR2's credit, they did provide some ways to easily toggle minimap visibility. GTAV has something like 6 different options for levels of information on the minimap, but there was no effort made to surface those settings to players, so it was up to the most highly engaged users to find, understand, and change those settings, which means only a handful out of hundreds of millions of players ever experimented with the settings. Many/most players do need the aid of a minimap, so it's a good option to provide as a default, but we need to get better at evangelizing for other modes in-game. Exploring these massive, beautifully realized worlds is so much more exciting when wandering around rather than playing the minimap like a game of Pac-Man.

Thanks for chimin' in! Yeah, I actually love RDR2's approach - to me, ideally the design would all hold up without a minimap at all, but the way I play is "nothing, and when I tap alt, The Big Minimap" and i'm very happy with it and the fact that I discovered it without trying. The "compass only" mode rules also.

ah I read your earlier post before finding this and I agree. with GTA V I realized I was looking at the hud the whole time and running into cars, so I stopped looking at it, I didn't realize you could turn it off.

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