v3launchunit

i like snakes and a free palestine

aside from the aforementioned affection towards snakes, i also hold a great deal of fondness in my heart for hollow knight (i am extremely normal™ about collector), rain world (miros birds are the best creature i will not be accepting criticism on this), command and conquer red alert 2 (kirov reporting), in stars and time (one must imagine sisyphus stuck in a time loop), and about a million other things.
i played through slay the princess and spent the whole game pretty much completely ignoring her in favor of dicking around with the narrator (there is no good ending because the narrator always dies) and the voices (contrarian is the best one), which probably says a lot about me (i am aromantic asexual (this will not stop me from rebugging horny™ shit that i am tangentially interested in)).
fuck it i'm a girl now (still he/they tho)
i also like to draw and make games & shit.


my goblin.band
goblin.band/@v

Codarobo
@Codarobo
Sorry! This post has been deleted by its original author.

Codarobo
@Codarobo

This would be a million times better than making machines that do nearly everything for you. The only reason a machine that does everything is even compelling to someone who legitimately WANTS to be an artist is because nobody has the time or money to spend years getting good. You have to be able to be commercially successful to be able to take time away from doing something else you use to support yourself, otherwise you can’t both put in the time and also be self sustaining. As a result many successful artists end up being people who were privileged in some other way and didn’t have to worry about the money, until they were able to just be financially successful with their craft. And who is allowed to be successful is also, you guessed it, gatekept. The industries can more or less decide who to let in, who gets to stay, who gets a good deal or who gets screwed.

This is the basis of what i would say is the real gatekeeping; the part i feel like people keep saying isn’t actually real just to dunk on the people talking about AI. It’s real, AI is just the worst of all worlds solution to it.

In essence: given that capitalism necessitates commercial viability of art in order for anyone to dedicate their lives to making it, it means that there are not as many paths to being an artist as you’d think. You have to be able to find your niche in a crowded marketplace, one that gets more crowded the more people are doing it. Under this system, once you become an established artist it is literally in your best interest for other artists to have to do all the same work you did or more, because that will in fact gatekeep enough people out of the profession so that you have little enough competition to be able to sustain yourself. This is the way in which i think AI people talk about it as reducing gatekeeping - it means you clear the “bar” more quickly, right? So any structural advantage someone might have (either through privilege or just -already having put in the time- not something everybody can do even if they wanted to) is in theory balanced out or whatever. Except, this is done by factoring out the actual practice and execution, and creates creative dependence on random art generators. It does truly warp the entire foundation of what a creative pursuit is, and puts power once again in the hands of the companies now making AI products. All bad stuff to be certain - and that’s before we get to how the models are sourced.

In general, i think the best way to open up art to everyone is through UBI, resources, grants, education, and art tools and such - giving people the tools and the time, and reducing the need to be financially successful in order to even do it at all. I think we should have lots of art that is not a moneymaker. I don’t think needing to make a lot of money should be a requirement. I think people should have as much freedom to create as can be given to them. And that sometimes just means time and money for sustaining one’s own life that didn’t have to come from sales.

Why is making this clarification so important to me?

It’s probably largely due to the fact that:

  • the recording industry sued AI companies on copyright grounds
  • copyright has a history of helping big corporations hoard the work of artists
  • many have decided that the recording industry doing this, and copyright itself, as a potential weapon against AI, was cool and good actually, because opposing AI is a higher priority than opposing business as usual
  • any history of the recording industry doing wage theft and intellectual property theft of artists went out the window because now the enemy of my enemy or whatever
  • now we’re saying gatekeeping isn’t real and putting the biggest institutional gatekeepers on a pedestal
  • i feel absolutely insane

It starts to feel like people who’ve jumped through all the hoops and done the hard work to navigate the commercial creative complex are like, “the problem isn’t the system, it’s that you’re getting a shortcut i didn’t have and wouldn’t accept even if i had. Let’s stick to the status quo please” as if the status quo was not already horrific and slanted. This new “solution” is a bad one, but so were things before. I would like to think we have other options out there besides just these two.


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in reply to @Codarobo's post:

I'm not really disagreeing with that at all here, i'm more just pointing out that industry already serves the function of institutional gatekeeping, and a lot of the arguments against AI I've seen fall along the lines of "AI will ruin our great meritocracy" and my point is that that meritocracy is already a lie. AI won't fix that, either, but seeing people embrace the meritocracy concept also feels very bad, given that we don't actually live in one and success and sustainability is often just random or offered along existing lines of privilege to begin with. (or it's based on what is marketable. And I just have never been OK with marketability being the determinant of what is allowed to exist/be made).

AI as a purported equalizer does not actually accomplish that or fight back against the current system in any way, but things like UBI/grants/etc. that would allow people to devote their time to developing their art without worrying about market success could help, which is the point i make in the followup post to this.

Definitely wishing that follow up replies were accessible from parent posts so it would be easier to keep context when someone just sees the parent. (This is why i think i often just edit a post 20 times right after posting it instead of replying, as i keep having thoughts, haha)

in reply to @Codarobo's post:

im a physically disabled artist and the whole lowering-entry barriers thing is so ???? to me ...
genAI flow is: prompt --(process black box)--> output
art is: prompt --> participation in creation --> output
the participation is so integral that myself & other disabled artists go out of our way to have it. we do art even if it hurts. we do art using our mouths and feet. we do art with computers by actively programming the process ourselves and I've even seen "AI" art that was the passion project of like, one disabled person, programming from nothing, training entirely on art they commissioned from artists who enthusiastically consented to being a part of this & are credited as collaborators.

more time off, universal healthcare, education (which doesn't just have to be art-related, it can be programming!), ability to afford art tools, all these things lower the bar to do art. Gatekeeping of art can look like only certain art styles or subjects being treated as real art.

genAI lowers the bar for ... something else, because you can't really interact with that genAI black box (it's like, actively blocking the human user from doing art??? this is like if you were forced to use a particular medium, with a particular composition, etc, that you cannot directly control... ???? the bar to do art with genAI is so much higher cause you've gotta know , idk, how to get access to what the "AI" "knows" and also how to interpret that data and then how to manipulate it to make it do things your way). anyways.
genAI flow is closer to the flow of commissions where the creation is done by someone else, but at least in commissions, you can have a conversation about what you want beyond throwing prompts into the black box, and also "AI" doesn't have any knowledge of what decisions are clearly unacceptable nor has any unique relations to a prompt, which a human artist would. so it's Worse Commissions.

so genAI doesn't satisfy the reasons people do art, and it's worse than getting someone else to do the art for you if you only care about the prompt & final artwork. So why use genAI?
You don't need to pay an artist if you use genAI :)

Automation has usurped the need to have manufacturing workers in many places, skills like sewing and carpentry and metalworking are devalued, ppl who do those things struggle to get by even though clothes, furniture, and metal parts are still bought all the time. The hope, for these companies, is that soon they will be able to throw out their creative-job workers, and an even higher % of capital goes to them and them alone.
I dont think making wealth inequality even worse is going to "lower the barrier to entry" for making art ...

oh damn ok looks like I had Thoughts About This i guess i was tired of getting scapegoated by genAI-likers as a physically disabled person who does in fact get hurt by doing art

Oh Im agreeing with u!! Sorry if that wasn't clear

Basically saying Im also ????????? about the way people are talking about this and how pushing back against genAI isnt gatekeeping . and also big companies do not have the best interests of artists in mind

Sorry again!!!

no worries, that’s honestly probably me being a bit tired/anxious/on edge lately and worried that I’m doing a bad job with formulating my position in a way that comes across as meaning something other than what i intended, cause i do sometimes get misread. My bad, we’re all good ❤️

Wrt “gatekeeping” i think part of what is making me feel a bit weird about the general discussion of it is that there are different forms of this from different sources. I’m not really trying to talk much about the version of it that means “artists dissing AI is gatekeeping”, but more the part that’s like “there is a form of gatekeeping created by capitalism which is real” and that’s kinda what I’m trying to focus on

yes yes! for sure. Artists who don't make it are usually belittled for even trying, art is seen as this kind of frivolous thing, and artists who find success are often treated horrifically. you have to be allowed to be successful, and be strong enough to endure what artistic success means; double gatekeeping.
genAI will probably make the gatekeeping-by-capitalism worse: to make it as an artist you will have to somehow be "special enough" that a company can't just get genAI to do it instead. and if you ever break through then chances are they'll train genAI on your work and fire you and you wont have the time or money to do art.
and copyright that would stop genAI would make artistic expression owned by big companies. Wasnt Adobe trying to copyright art styles ??

as you say, both genAI-filled and also copyright-filled futures r not good and not worth honestly considering. and ppl supporting both will pretend theyre doing it to help people engage with art, or maybe (more frighteningly?) believe theyre doing it to help people engage with art