vogon

the evil "Website Boy"

member of @staff, lapsed linguist and drummer, electronics hobbyist

zip's bf

no supervisor but ludd means the threads any good


twitter (inactive)
twitter.com/vogon
bluesky
if bluesky has a million haters I am one of them, if bluesky has one hater that's me, if bluesky has no haters then I am no more on the earth (more details: https://cohost.org/vogon/post/1845751-bonus-pure-speculati)
irl
seattle, WA

vogon
@vogon
leyam
@leyam asked:

as someone with a very limited understanding internet stuff what are the main issues w bluesky as a twitter replacement?

(disclaimer: this is not the official position of anti software software club nor have I even asked my coworkers to proofread this)

  • in its past few months of operational history it's become obvious that bluesky has very little intent on doing anything beyond the bare minimum as far as moderation:
    • noted op-ed doofus matt yglesias joined the site and immediately got harassed for being matt yglesias1 and couldn't block the people who were harassing him because blocks weren't a concept that existed on the site at the time; they had to implement blocks on an emergency basis because of the bad press.
    • their new community guidelines (which won't apply for another two weeks) are the first revision which attempt to set local speech rules beyond "be polite and respectful".
    • even the new community guidelines make clear that these are rules which only apply to Bluesky Social itself and cannot be enforced on other instances of the AT Protocol.
    • their "composable moderation" content labels (including the "political - hate groups" label that gave rise to bluesky's famous "racism slider") were originally applied exclusively by AI models, and I suspect this is still the case.
  • despite being a supposedly "decentralized" service, none of the actual federation/decentralization story seems to have been publicly thought through at all, and I assume that the interaction of decentralization and speech policy is even less thought through than that.

the two possible futures I see for bluesky are

a) the future where it actually gets effectively decentralized, but all of the development work is being done by people who deeply believe in all of the worst "free speech wing of the free speech party" mistakes that twitter made in the early 2010s and the service is effectively unmoderatable;
b) the future where Bluesky and Bluesky PBLLC remain hegemonic in the space and we just get Trump-Era Twitter 2, except this time their moderation team gets to say "don't like it? run your own service" -- which they will absolutely say an order of magnitude more often to marginalized people than people with political views on the far right.

also, not on a technical level, but I get very bad vibes from trusting a twitter-funded twitter spinout2 with jack dorsey -- the cofounder of block fka square, a financial services company which is still making plays in the cryptocurrency space -- staffed by a lot of people who worked on twitter's cryptocurrency projects. it doesn't matter how many adamant denials they issue that cryptocurrency will be involved, I just do not and will never trust it.


  1. in case it's not already clear, I support harassing him because of articles like this

  2. fun fact I discovered recently: jack still owns $1 billion of twitter; he negotiated this in the musk acquisition


LowBeyonder
@LowBeyonder

I am begrudgingly & perhaps hypocritically on there because way too much community I'd hate to lose has chosen to try rebuilding over there instead of elsewhere (like, f'rex, here) but lordy do I agree with every one of these concerns.


vogon
@vogon

yeah and to be clear I don't look down on people who start a bluesky account to hedge, and we're not gonna ban people linking to them on here or whatever.

however, I do think choosing to embrace bluesky instead of cohost or mastodon or tumblr or even like... spill or spoutible1 and begrudgingly getting an account there in the event that doesn't work out is a mistake in pretty much every way something can be a mistake.


  1. pretty much anything but twitter honestly. or hive social. or counter dot social2. bluesky is probably better than those.

  2. if you're unfamiliar with counter dot social, it's the mastodon fork run by the jester, which was defederated by basically the entire fediverse for deciding that the best way to deal with disinformation campaigns sponsored by Russia and China was to block those entire countries from signing up


You must log in to comment.

in reply to @vogon's post:

I don't think (1) will happen because hegemonic megacorps are not actually a downside to that group. At least, not enough of one to be worth building out actual replacements for infrastructure. Also, ActivityPub already exists and serves that group's needs just fine.

I honestly also expect it to fail, so I don't see (2) happening either, but if it does succeed that's the path it will take.

I just don't see how anything from the vc funded techbro space could ever produce something long lasting. Even if bluesky's protocol gets adopted widely, it just gonna suffer the same sort of tech rot and bloat that all those sorts of businesses do. It's a bad time.

Man I got confused by that footnote as someone who knows nothing about anything because I thought you were supporting the argument that people in Bangladesh should work awful conditions because they're poor. I had to look back at what the footnote was attached to, then look at the article again, and finally notice who it was written by before it clicked lmao.

when i saw the "different places have different safety rules" headline my inchoate first thought was a metaphorical "yeah its important to have different places with different levels of intensity so everyone is comfortable" and then i realised the headline was by matty and meant literally

in reply to @vogon's post:

Oh what's up with Hive? I hadn't heard much about them. I never tried them cause they don't have a desktop version.

It does bum me out that Bluesky is catching on the most as the Twitter replacement. Folks on Twitter are treating Bluesky like the life raft off that place but I do wish Cohost caught on more for that. I have dealt with transphobia for far too long to just watch everyone leap to another platform lacking in moderation.

Oh what's up with Hive? I hadn't heard much about them.

it's the product of one or maybe two developers with very little formal training and after they got their big hype cycle last year it was discovered that the entire site did authorization and authentication on the client; i.e., you could see everyone's posts even if they were only marked visible to friends, force other users to follow you, etc. it "shut down for maintenance" for a couple of weeks while they fixed that.

A lot of my friends are digging it but I sure wish that the only reply to my first post wasn't "quit all the other social media sites!" Tech fandom wars have not gotten any less tedious since Windows v. Apple circa 1998.

I will say it's doing a good job of being exactly like Twitter circa six months ago, though, which... has confirmed my belief that I'm Fucking Done with Twitter and all of its clones. I'll keep an eye on it for professional reasons but man do I not have either love or trust in my soul for that business model any more.