vogon

the evil "Website Boy"

member of @staff, lapsed linguist and drummer, electronics hobbyist

zip's bf

no supervisor but ludd means the threads any good


twitter (inactive)
twitter.com/vogon
bluesky
if bluesky has a million haters I am one of them, if bluesky has one hater that's me, if bluesky has no haters then I am no more on the earth (more details: https://cohost.org/vogon/post/1845751-bonus-pure-speculati)
irl
seattle, WA

tef
@tef

edit:

i hate to break character, especially months after a post, but i feel people need a little more context to read this post than assumed:

  • this is a mean post about a thing that annoys me

  • cory doctorow is the originator of the term "enshitification", and he is by any and all measures, a disney adult. that's the joke in the title. i feel like stewart lee having to spell things out here, but understanding this joke is the entry qualifications for the rest of the flippant commentary.

  • the really big take home message, for the people still following along, is this: enshitification, albeit defined in market terms, is regularly used as if it's a problem capitalism is afflicted by, rather than a problem capitalism causes.

  • the other, less important message: i find the people who use this term in this way annoying, and unfortunately many of them found this post. i did not realise how deeply upset people would take jokes at the expense of "new york times readers" but in hindsight, you can only read so many op-eds before clutching your own pearls on impulse.

  • i use "walking past a picket to complain to the manager" to talk about that "i'm politically liberal but why can't protests be quieter" mentality, the idea that any and all problems can be fixed by the regular channels. the person in question is used to being at the top of some power structure. apparently i need to explain this too. go figure.

  • wait. one more thing, if you find yourself "but i use that word, but i don't use it in the way you complain about!" if so, this post isn't about you, no matter how rude i am.

got all that? great.

here's the original inflammatory post. please enjoy posting about it in places i can't see:

look, i hate the term "enshittification" as much as anyone. it feels like one of those made up swear words that came out of a doctorwho/supernatural fanfic, and for a while i was happy to continue dismissing it on those terms

it took me a while to realise that i hate it for entirely legitimate reasons too.

when people say "enshittification", it's as if their core complaint about capitalism is the customer service, rather than the systematic exploitation of other people. people don't talk about union busting as "enshittification", or wage theft as "enshittification", let alone deeper systematic issues.

people talk about enshittification to mean "i can't watch my favourite tv show any more"


ketra
@ketra

in my experience "enshittification" has been used almost solely by people who do have more than a surface-level understanding of capitalism and its processes specifically to refer to the process of companies who operate Web services changing those services in a way that makes the users' experience worse, in order to tailor the service to further pursue profits.

i think this is a useful term because:

  1. it clearly describes a subprocess that happens over and over again within and because of the capitalist mode of production
  2. it can be used to facilitate dialogue with people who do not yet have a deep understanding of capitalism and its flaws but who are clearly frustrated with negative experiences resulting from enshittification
  3. it is actually okay to be frustrated because a product or service that functioned well for you now functions like shit

2, i think, is the important bit. there are a lot of people who are frustrated because of this but don't understand the what or why of it. this is a concept that you can use to help others understand what is going on and why it is so endemic to capitalism.

because, sure, some people are right now of the mindset "i can't watch my favorite tv show". this is a tool you can use to help them move toward being critical of capitalism, and you can use it in conjunction with other ideas to develop a criticism that does not stop at "product bad now" and instead continues on to, say, "these practices are fundamentally exploitative of laborers"


NireBryce
@NireBryce

my biggest issue with "enshittification" is most of the time it's used, it's thought-terminating. I'll discuss actual issues going on and people (on "the left") come into replies just saying "that's enshittification" instead of actually thinking about or advancing whatever's being talked about. It's replaced "yeah, it's capitalism. capitalism is the problem" replies whenever I talk about specific aspects of capitalism.

Does the word itself have that use? no, and some people use it correctly. But internet people wanting to sound smarter or more progressive or more plugged in than they are, or people who only heard the term from them, has largely auto-coöpted it's meaning.

and so, it becomes circular instead of enlightening.

edit to clarify:


it's a useful concept! but it's rapidly being watered down and shifted past what it ~usefully describes as jargon, faster than most things, because of it's utility and placement in time. Faster than a stable foundation is able to be built around it. which is more just a portent of things to come, but seems important to highlight how it's losing it's usefulness almost in real time as people with no real knowledge of what it means start defining it when asked.

jargon is the compression of several paragraphs of explanation into a phrase that can be used as a "link" to the original concept, but stops being useful for that outside of people who already deeply know it when it starts being used offhandedly like this.

my issue isn't that enshittification-as-described-canonically is a bad concept (the word itself isn't great but it has enough of the kiki nature that it's the right kind of phonetically spiny) but that the term has become functionally useless at describing more than the "woe the company has turned against me", even though the point is that the turning against isn't just the business plan, but a budget line item planned from the start because it's the only way these places can become profitable at the scale they are, especially with VC money.


You must log in to comment.

in reply to @tef's post:

He's not a secret monster or anything just a dude I mainly think of as an intellectual leader among circa-2000s teenagers alongside folks like Xeni Jardin, and every time I am reintroduced to his latest works he's still exactly the same guy. It's like hearing a bunch of 30somethings soberly discussing economic theory they got from The Wiggles

I get the complaint, but I understand it's intent to be exactly in line with your statement of "it is what companies set out to be". Like .. the whole thing is describing a process aimed at burning money to create a locked in sector you can then abuse.

idk! i think this is unfairly mean. I'm sorry you don't like this language, but I'm not a disney adult or doctor who fan, and I feel like the term is still a useful tool for describing one pov of one part of our specific time of capitalism, esp on the internet? idk, I use the term and I'm not crossing any picket lines or complaining about a star wars show. inevitably in our modern lives we must deal with companies, and make compromises and find least-worst options. And recognizing that lately long-running least-worsts have been upturning their quo to be much more-worse for what appears to be no rational reason — yes, that's one part of the whole capitalist picture, but also having a word for it lets us capture and communicate an idea rather than just shrugging our shoulders and saying "oh well capitalism", y'know?

It's absolutely inevitable, an economic system has laws like the universe has laws of physics. What we're witnessing is the result of continued capital accumulation in an environment of finite resources: it gets harder to do, so they look for more ways of doing it.

They're running out of steam so they go around looking to plug leaks. That's all this ever is.

Most of the usage of it I've seen isn't communicating a useful idea, though. The point of the original definition was that there is a rational (though shitty and exploitative) reason for these changes: shifting value from users/business customers to shareholders once they've captured them.

But most usage matches what you mentioned: blaming businesses for making things worse for no reason. That use of the word cuts off the opportunity to question why these things actually happen and centers it entirely on the inconvenience. An inconvenience that only exists because the platform was able to operate at a loss long enough to convince you that an unsustainable benefit was normal and would be around forever.

i am sure the use of the word "hurricane" cuts off the opportunity to question why these things actually happen and centers it entirely on the inconvenience to humans. instead let us only ever speak of high pressure systems. who dares seek to label a symptom that affects them more visibly!

Can you say more about where you're seeing this kind of (mis)use of the term? I'm not sure I've encountered anything exactly like that. The closest I can think of is this WIRED article -- which doesn't seem like it's misusing the term so much as it's joining Cory Doctorow in being wrong about solutions.

Well said! There may indeed be a lot of people who use the term "enshittification" and are also otherwise uncritical of the status quo. But that's also an opportunity. It's a jumping off point to have a conversation where you get to say "you know how this keeps happening? Well, there's a deeper reason for that..."

i'm not really sure if it feels like a positive thing that even the most head in the sand francis fukuyama ass lumpen prole needs a word for theirs life becoming worse under capitalism. like yeah i guess it could be good that there's at least an awareness that it's shit and they're even coming for your comfortable little treats. but i just don't know if there's any generalized way to extend that concept into any kind of remotely accurate idea of its causes. half the time they just think it's because of affirmative action or something

Maybe this is just me coming from an online-leftist perspective, but the only people I've ever seen use the term 'enshittification' are people who by their other words seem to understand that things are getting worse for structural reasons, not "just bad ceos"

it's a word for a real thing that circumscribes only the parts of the ongoing phenomena of the decline that affect the already comfortable. as it's used it pretty particularly excludes all the things that matter much more, as if to prevent people thinking about them. so yeah, the fact that it's not that deep is probably the whole issue here

I've seen the term used to describe making something so exploitative it's Disney Villain levels of evil. Like removing features to sell them back to you. Removing features so they can sell you a solution that is some form of DRM or comes in tiered versions of itself for maximum profit. To keep the prices the same but reduce the amount of something you get. Basically business doing everything they can to squeeze money out of people regardless of how it affect their products/services

this line of use still stops at “i am unhappy with how this has impacted me and my notions of convenience in this specific instance” rather than identifying that this is a goal of the company and some of the manifestations of that goal are much uglier than “i have to pay more money for this luxury in a corner of my life”

in reply to @NireBryce's post:

I think this is how I feel about it -- I haven't personally seen people misusing the term (but in speaking with others, it very much happens), and regardless I think it probably collapses a number of phenomena into one too-broad (but very catchy to some!) term -- but the underlying issue is the behavior of not thinking deeper about the roots of the problems or wanting to wrap complex situations up in a neat little package of "enshittification", not necessarily the term itself.

It's an imprecise and nebulous, but still potentially useful, concept.

"enshittification" and "that's capitalism" also help to ignore other important factors contributing to the problem, particularly the role that consumer behavior plays

the entire business model only works because we all naively flock to the most obviously unsustainable platforms and services, even though they offer absurdly expensive services at ridiculously cheap prices with an expansive free tier and a very weak monetization model. meanwhile, more sustainable alternatives go out of business because no one's using them

it's easy to throw all the blame on the capitalists, but that's a cop-out. the capitalists are doing it because it works so well, and it works so well because we make no attempts to avoid it even when we know it's coming. convenience wins out every time