girl who loves mecha, toku and fighting games!! also big fan of animation. nice to meet you all!


ponett
@ponett

months after having watched hazbin hotel with anthony and disliking it so much that i had to write like a 15k word review on why the show frustrated me, we're now finally taking a look at helluva boss. and... actually it's not bad. it's all right. it finds its footing pretty quick. i still have my misgivings about the juvenile dialogue, but it's just way more competently made as a tv show, with a better grasp on the basics of tv storytelling, better pacing, a better cast of characters, better designs, and no poorly thought out grand narrative about redemption and genocide that drags the show down. it's still not quite my thing, but it's at least something where i can see the appeal

that being said, having just watched season 2 episode 3 of helluva boss (the one with moxxie's backstory), i do feel like these shows have weird hangups with their queer male characters. this really clicked for me while watching that episode


these shows have so many queer men who are extremely sexually promiscuous, have tons of one-night stands, constantly make unwanted sexual comments that make the other characters uncomfortable, and in many cases use their promiscuity as a maladaptive coping mechanism, fearing genuine emotional connections. their queerness hurts them. most famously there's angel dust in hazbin, the drug-addicted gay porn star who treats his line of work as an act of self-harm and is stuck in an abusive relationship with his pimp. meanwhile in helluva boss, blitzo and stolas are obviously very openly queer, but their relationship is complicated. stolas initially treats blitzo as a boy toy for him to cheat on his wife with, while blitzo reluctantly sleeps with stolas just because in exchange stolas is letting him borrow a spellbook that he needs to do his job. it grows into something more complex over time, but this is how it starts

and then, in season 2 episode 3 of helluva boss, we realize that there IS one queer man in these shows who's actually well-adjusted, who's in a stable relationship, who isn't constantly sexually harassing his costars... and it's moxxie, who's married to a woman but is revealed here to be bisexual. the episode even contrasts moxxie's relationship with millie to their mutual ex, yet another slutty queer man who's constantly making comments about gay sex and his dick and being treated as a gross pest by everyone around him. he's the embodiment of moxxie's shameful past that he'd rather not return to, while his perfect loving wife is the embodiment of the fact that he's in a better place now

these characters also stand in stark contrast to the most notable f/f pairing in either show, charlie and vaggie (i still hate her fucking name) in hazbin hotel. again, they're just unambiguously a happy, supportive couple, and it's not like they're hitting on every woman they see or constantly going around making comments about scissoring in the way that the queer men won't shut up about dick. by comparison they feel like they stepped out of a disney cartoon

and it's like... i mean, i don't think this is entirely intentional. i'll give vivzie the benefit of the doubt here. and i don't think these stories are all bad. angel dust was the most compelling character to me in hazbin, as i said in my review, and i think the drama between blitzo and stolas evolves into one of the most compelling parts of helluva. these are quite obviously some of the characters these shows care about the most. but there's definitely a pattern here that i don't particularly like the undertones of


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in reply to @ponett's post:

I read it more as the author having a fujoshi-adjacent fixation which leads to all the gay/bi male characters getting to be messy and complicated, while the one canon lesbian relationship is kinda just "they're girlfriends :)". it's something I actually like about HB since there's very few other western animated shows I can think of that have gay male relationships at the center of their storylines

I'm wondering how you'll feel about the other couple later on in this season, it feels like a deliberate attempt to have a more stable relationship to contrast against blitz/stolas

also, earnestly, thanks again for the HH review. I still agree with your central criticisms of that show, but it got me interested enough to give it an honest watchthrough. despite the faults, it ended up clicking with me so hard that I got back into learning art and even met the voice casts for both shows a few months ago. I imagine this was not your intention but I appreciate the outcome all the same

well, i suppose i'm glad it has a positive impact on you lol

and i mean, yeah, it's definitely mostly just the result of viv having fujo tendencies and really liking her vulgar toxic yaoi and pouring all the drama into the m/m stuff. which, y'know, would be fine on its own. but when i step back and the het couple is like "let's sing a duet about how we'll love each other forever and ever <3" and most of the queer men are like "there's a gaping void in my soul that i try to fill with a single-minded obsession with casual sex but it's never enough" it leaves a weird taste in my mouth, even when the queer men are undoubtedly the more interesting characters there

yeah that's reasonable. the second half of s2 has had a much larger focus on a theme of "queer men who genuinely want romantic love but hide it under a pretense of disaffected lust" and it's the kind of gay messy drama that I want more of in media, even if the way it's handled occasionally stumbles into negative framing around the subject as a whole

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