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chaos gf @zip10/9/2023, 11:40 AM

Johnnemann @johnnemann

Johnnemann @johnnemann10/9/2023, 11:25 AM

It's interesting to see two separate groups of oppressed people reacting with violence against an occupying force being discussed in the (English-speaking) media at the same time. A lot of times I think even cynical leftists like myself get led down the path of "this is about the moral values of freedom and sovereignty and homeland" rather than the obvious realpolitik aspects of global power balance.

Also, speaking of English-speaking media, it's wild seeing the reporting from English-language Indian press about Ukraine and Putin vs the US and European media reporting. It's not any more true but it is really striking to see the opposite view expressed so confidently.

#politics #ukraine #war #israel

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in reply to @johnnemann's post:

JP @vectorpoem10/9/2023, 3:38 PM

It's often weirdly hard to trace the contours of neoliberalism as a specifically political alignment (as opposed to a motivator of particular policy stances) online but this is one such case: almost all neolibs are both diehard Ukraine supporters (to the point of becoming a creepy obnoxious sports team like fandom, in some cases) and diehard Israel supporters.

I wonder how many of them wholeheartedly perceive Russia as "Communist".

Johnnemann @johnnemann10/9/2023, 3:44 PM

Yeah it's very interesting. You can see simultaneously the arguments "violence does nothing, we need to respect the diplomatic peace process", and "to call for peace against an oppressor disrespects the rights of the oppressed, we need to send more weapons and see this through, even if the odds are slim" repeated by the same figures, only the context changing

RagingHadron @raginghadron10/9/2023, 4:23 PM

I mean, I think there is a sense in which the situation with Israel and Palestine is more complicated than with Ukraine and Russia.

That said, Israel and Russia are both pretty fucking clearly in the wrong.

What really boggles my mind is that anyone can look at what Putin's Russia is doing and say "sounds good, let's support that".

hannah @a-new-low10/9/2023, 5:59 PM

on one hand sure, on the other hand we live in a world where cheerleaders for the US occupation and invasion of Iraq still fill places of power and prestige so it's hard to be that surprised by any cheerleading for crimes of global magnitude

RagingHadron @raginghadron10/9/2023, 7:17 PM

Honestly, the US response to 9/11 pisses me off more the older I get. Not just because it wasn't about doing the right thing, it wasn't even about getting revenge, as misguided a goal as that would have been. If the US cared about "getting even", they wouldn't still be doing business with Saudi Arabia. Instead, it was just about money and power.